if homo sapiens not the only sentient hominid

But what if other hominids such as the Neanderthals in Europe or Homo erectus such as the Peking Man in China or the Java man in Indonesia had not died out completely, but survived, perhaps in small populations up until the age of modern man's civilization.

If this is the case, how would human history be differnce if "lower" hominids had been living alongside our species as it developped civilization.? These other hominids would be sentient, and smarter than apes but then dumber than us. Perhaps they avoided competition from us and lived as hunter gatherers in isolated locations. If we discovered them, would that change our view on human nature? I think so. Since the closest relatives we have living today are uncivilized apes, we think of ourselves (homo sapiens sapiens) as the dominant being who is separate from the realm of "animals". Our religions and morality (at least the abrahamic ones) are founded on the concept of "human" having dominion over "animal", the former being a conscious, rational, intelligent soul and the latter as a mindless brute that is to be "used". A wide gulf separates the two in our minds, a duality like black and white. But if other "sentient" beings existed, wouldn't that change? How would our morality, philosophy of humanity be different? If a real life homo habilus, homo erectus, or neandarthal were surviving today, that would stir up more of a dilemma. Where would we draw the line between human and animal? Would the lower, less intelligent "hominids" be protected by law? If a neanderthal or homo erectus killed someone, could he/she/it be tried in court, assumed to have free will and be responsible for the action? Would they be given full or partial human rights or animal rights?
 

Straha

Banned
Read Harry Turtledove's "A Different flesh" for a good take on a world with homo erectus in the new world.
 
i suspect a world in witch rasicem be much more dominant than it is now and probarly the other species except the neanderthal die out sooner or later because they where quite tough and might survive being enslaved for quite some time, but all in all with more races i would envision more raceisem just not between homosapiens like in OTL.
 
aware of emptiness said:
But what if other hominids such as the Neanderthals in Europe or Homo erectus such as the Peking Man in China or the Java man in Indonesia had not died out completely, but survived, perhaps in small populations up until the age of modern man's civilization.

If this is the case, how would human history be differnce if "lower" hominids had been living alongside our species as it developped civilization.? These other hominids would be sentient, and smarter than apes but then dumber than us. Perhaps they avoided competition from us and lived as hunter gatherers in isolated locations. If we discovered them, would that change our view on human nature? I think so. Since the closest relatives we have living today are uncivilized apes, we think of ourselves (homo sapiens sapiens) as the dominant being who is separate from the realm of "animals". Our religions and morality (at least the abrahamic ones) are founded on the concept of "human" having dominion over "animal", the former being a conscious, rational, intelligent soul and the latter as a mindless brute that is to be "used". A wide gulf separates the two in our minds, a duality like black and white. But if other "sentient" beings existed, wouldn't that change? How would our morality, philosophy of humanity be different? If a real life homo habilus, homo erectus, or neandarthal were surviving today, that would stir up more of a dilemma. Where would we draw the line between human and animal? Would the lower, less intelligent "hominids" be protected by law? If a neanderthal or homo erectus killed someone, could he/she/it be tried in court, assumed to have free will and be responsible for the action? Would they be given full or partial human rights or animal rights?

Not to poke holes, but wasn't the Peking Man hoaxed?

ES
 

Keenir

Banned
aware of emptiness said:
But what if other hominids such as the Neanderthals in Europe or Homo erectus such as the Peking Man in China or the Java man in Indonesia had not died out completely, but survived, perhaps in small populations up until the age of modern man's civilization.

If this is the case, how would human history be differnce if "lower" hominids had been living alongside our species as it developped civilization.? These other hominids would be sentient, and smarter than apes but then dumber than us.

Would the lower, less intelligent "hominids" be protected by law? If a neanderthal or homo erectus killed someone, could he/she/it be tried in court, assumed to have free will and be responsible for the action? Would they be given full or partial human rights or animal rights?

Why do you assume neandertals and other Homonid species would be less intelligent than homo sapiens? neandertals and homo florensis were actually smarter than h.sapiens.
 
Keenir said:
Why do you assume neandertals and other Homonid species would be less intelligent than homo sapiens? neandertals and homo florensis were actually smarter than h.sapiens.

There's actually no real proof for that because there are no known living subjects. Based on Brain-Body ratios, Neandertals should be more intelligent than us. I'm not sure about the Hobbits though.
 

Straha

Banned
schrammy said:
i suspect a world in witch rasicem be much more dominant than it is now and probarly the other species except the neanderthal die out sooner or later because they where quite tough and might survive being enslaved for quite some time, but all in all with more races i would envision more raceisem just not between homosapiens like in OTL.
Actually you are correct about racism being both more intense between humans/nonhumans and being more intense than OTL. We'd likely see the other speices domesticated and kept around as slave races/domestic animals. Race relatiosn between different races of humainty(just humans) would be better than in OTL with a common enemy to attack. Expect more in the way of interracial mxing between human groups.
 
Interestingly, dolphins have a brain mass: body mass ratio which is higher that of H. erectus, but lower than that of most modern humans. To be sure much more of the dolphin brain is connected with auditory factors, where more of ours is connected with visual factors, so the intelligence is probably very different. Currently, researchers are trying to develop ways to communicate with them better. It's generally thought that they've not developed technology because fins are not quite as good as hands with opposable thumbs for that. But they may be just as intelligent as archaeic humans were. Of course, through most of human history, we were not competing with dolphins for living environments. But now?....:confused:
 

Straha

Banned
Mankind in this TL owuld be more mixed and less uniform in race. Basicalle we're talking a situaiton like latin america of OTL. A few people looking like they're of one race, most people looking mixed, a few othersl ooking of another race
 
EvolvedSaurian said:
There's actually no real proof for that because there are no known living subjects. Based on Brain-Body ratios, Neandertals should be more intelligent than us. I'm not sure about the Hobbits though.

H. sapiens neandertalis had larger absolute brain mass (~1600-1800 g) compared to H. sapiens sapiens, but actually lower brain mass: body mass, on account of their bulkier bodies, meaning more muscle cells to control with more brain.
 
I disagree with Straha's assumptions. For one thing, we must assume that the different species would be separated- one in the Americas, one in Eurasia, maybe one in Australia or Polynesia (hm, what would a hominid adapted to life on the sea look like? Floresiensis?) Thus, as it were, race would still end up a factor. Note that in OTL, just because you had the larger differences of "White" and "Black", both groups still subdivided and formed separate groups where intermarriage there was uncommon for much of history.
 
Cosmos said:
H. sapiens neandertalis had larger absolute brain mass (~1600-1800 g) compared to H. sapiens sapiens, but actually lower brain mass: body mass, on account of their bulkier bodies, meaning more muscle cells to control with more brain.

Was there much difference between the size of a Neandertal as opposed to a sapien. I always thought they were around 5' 200lbs.
 

Keenir

Banned
Cosmos said:
H. sapiens neandertalis had larger absolute brain mass (~1600-1800 g) compared to H. sapiens sapiens, but actually lower brain mass: body mass, on account of their bulkier bodies, meaning more muscle cells to control with more brain.

they also had a section of the brain that humans didn't!

(as did the Hobbits...though their extra brain-part was in the front)
 
Once civilization developed, erectus would probably be enslaved and bred for obedience by modern humans. Look for an early theory of evolution too.
 
EvolvedSaurian said:
Was there much difference between the size of a Neandertal as opposed to a sapien. I always thought they were around 5' 200lbs.

sapiens neandertal were not taller but were bulkier and thus heavier with more muscle than sapiens sapies. It's not much of a difference but their brain were only slightly larger than ours.
 

NomadicSky

Banned
Maybe our species was the most violent and that's the true reason were still here and others aren't, it could also be possible that we interbread with neandertals or other groups we know nothing about.
I've seen people with very heavy brow ridges might this be a surviving neathertal trait?
 
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