I Don't Want to Hijack Doug M.s Thread

[The Dean]

I Don't Want to Hijack Doug M.s Thread so I am starting another Led Zeppelin thread.

First a bit of history, back in 1967-8 Pete Townshend was contemplating his navel giving birth to Tommy. Kieth Moon and John Entwhistle were getting restless and while hanging out in the Marquee club they started discussions with a vocalist and a guitarist to start new band.

The vocalist was Roger Plant and the guitarist Jimmy Page. The name they decided for the band was Led Zeppelin.

WI Pete didn't get his arse into gear and Tommy took another few months to finish then Led Zeppelin hit the road with The Ox(John) and Moon the Loon as the rhythm section?

What would the effects be on

1. The Who

1. Led Zeppelin

I shall let you know my thoughts later.

 

[Doug M.]

Does this work? I'm not so sure.

First, you need a really strong vocalist to stay on the same stage with Entwistle and Moon. OTL Roger Daltrey carried this off with ablomb, but who'd fill this role in Who Zep?

Second, you need someone to write songs. (Jimmy Page could compose, but he wasn't a songwriter.) Without Pete Townshend, that role may fall to Entwistle. Umm.

Third, can Page run herd on Moon and Entwistle, especially Moon? OTL Roger Daltrey kept the band members in check. In the early days, he did this by beating them up; at one point they kicked him out for a few days, until he agreed to stop being so overbearing. But he still was the group's big brother figure. I don't see Jimmy Page filling that role.

Mind, it's an interesting notion. "Whole Lotta Love" with Keith Moon on drums? Huh.


Doug M.

 

[The Dean]

Does this work? I'm not so sure.

First, you need a really strong vocalist to stay on the same stage with Entwistle and Moon. OTL Roger Daltrey carried this off with ablomb, but who'd fill this role in Who Zep?.

I must say I don't know how it would work but Robert Plant has to be up there with Roger Daltrey as one of the best Rock vocalists. Who, pun geddit, is better is a matter of personal preference, I like them both. The very least that could happen is there would be a hell of a lot of noise!

Second, you need someone to write songs. (Jimmy Page could compose, but he wasn't a songwriter.) Without Pete Townshend, that role may fall to Entwistle. Umm..

Robert Plant also did some songwriting so between the three of them they could cobble together a ditty or two. After all Page and Plant did a lot of the writing for Zeppelin.

Third, can Page run herd on Moon and Entwistle, especially Moon? OTL Roger Daltrey kept the band members in check. In the early days, he did this by beating them up; at one point they kicked him out for a few days, until he agreed to stop being so overbearing. But he still was the group's big brother figure. I don't see Jimmy Page filling that role..

Or Robert Plant come to that but it would sure make an entertaining episode in Rock history.

Mind, it's an interesting notion. "Whole Lotta Love" with Keith Moon on drums? Huh.

and The Ox on bass!

Have you heard Moony on Beck's Bolero BTW?

I will have more to say later on my slant on butterfly's to The Who and Pete Townsend.

 

[alt_historian]

Some thoughts

...

The vocalist was Roger Plant and the guitarist Jimmy Page. The name they decided for the band was Led Zeppelin.

WI Pete didn't get his arse into gear and Tommy took another few months to finish then Led Zeppelin hit the road with The Ox(John) and Moon the Loon as the rhythm section?

What would the effects be on

1. The Who

1. Led Zeppelin

I shall let you know my thoughts later.

I was going to say something like "Oi! It's Robert Plant, you fool!", but then I noticed you corrected it later.

Hmm, so:

Led Zeppelin (Zeppelin Who?)

Lead Vocals: Robert Plant.
Lead Guitar: Jimmy Page.
Bass Guitar: John Entwistle.
Percussion/Rhythm: Keith Moon.

That would certainly be an... interesting lineup. Something of a supergroup - although at the time, none of them had been in a really major group yet AFAIK, so it isn't really a supergroup.

And we have to consider how their musical development would have been different - which of course is the point of the thread. Will they have to ask John to keep it down in order for the rest to be heard, given his experiences with The Who? "In the mid 1960s, Entwistle was one of the first to make use of Marshall stacks. Pete Townshend later remarked that John started using Marshalls in order to hear himself over Moon's drums, and Townshend himself also had to use them just to be heard over John." And they just kept getting louder...

Imagine Dazed and Confused with Entwistle doing the opening bass and Moon on drums. Or Entwistle doing some kind of bass solo in the middle instead of Page doing his as OTL... Would Page and Entwistle clash?

 

[The Dean]

OK so let's have a peek at what could have happened to Pete and Rog with The Who.

Tommy would have flown like a bird whatever happened. Now if John and Keith were committed elsewhere it would not have stopped the studio recording of Tommy. Pete had done demos of all of the tracks playing every instrument, I have heard them and if you put in Rogers vocals it would have worked.

In fact all of Pete's work for The Who was done by him producing a demo and then the others going into the studio and recreating it. Often the demo is just as good, after all it was often made in the same studio.

How their live performances would have evolved is another matter completely. Today Pete and Rog play with gifted session musicians and give fresh performances of old compositions alongside startlingly original new numbers. How might this have developed back in 1969 is for Pete's compositions to remain more faithful to his demos. There were plenty of great drummers and bass players around and who knows who (groan) would have stood in for John and Kieth.

Bear in mind that Kieth died of drug/alcohol excess in 1978 two years before John Bonham of Zeppelin did in the same fashion so there are a lot of parallels here.

 

[alt_historian]

OK so let's have a peek at what could have happened to Pete and Rog with The Who.

Tommy would have flown like a bird whatever happened. Now if John and Keith were committed elsewhere it would not have stopped the studio recording of Tommy. Pete had done demos of all of the tracks playing every instrument, I have heard them and if you put in Rogers vocals it would have worked.

In fact all of Pete's work for The Who was done by him producing a demo and then the others going into the studio and recreating it. Often the demo is just as good, after all it was often made in the same studio.

How their live performances would have evolved is another matter completely. Today Pete and Rog play with gifted session musicians and give fresh performances of old compositions alongside startlingly original new numbers. How might this have developed back in 1969 is for Pete's compositions to remain more faithful to his demos. There were plenty of great drummers and bass players around and who knows who (groan) would have stood in for John and Kieth.

All seems plausible...

Bear in mind that Kieth died of drug/alcohol excess in 1978 two years before John Bonham of Zeppelin did in the same fashion so there are a lot of parallels here.

Hey, I hadn't noticed that. Weird...

PS: Not trying to embarass you, but I can't help noticing the "ei/ie" blind spot thing in Keith/"Kieth". I get that as well, sometimes, but only while typing - I notice it when I look back up at the screen.