How would the absence of Jewish population affect Europe?

[Apple3169]

I always think about a timeline where Israel had been re-formed with the conversion of a great nation to Judaism. Such as Vikings, Slavs, Ethiopians etc... Or Khazars never collapsed. In this case, Israel is being formed very far away from the Western Europe therefore Jewish people immigrates to "New" Israel within time. This eventually causes Jewish diaspora that lives on Europe to disappear.
In the world after Middle Ages, how would it affect Europe (and Islamic World) that Jewish population do not exist at all. Could French Revolution, scientific progression and the advent of political ideologies occur in the same way? If not, how do you think these kind of major events would change?

 

[Lalli]

What would be POD ITTL? And where and how that new Judea would be established? And would really all Jews move there? I bit doubt that. It should be close enough and large and fertile enough to sustain all Jews.

And I don't think that all Jews ever would move to that Israel. Even OTL Jews didn't all move to Israel.

 

[CASSICTOR2]

What would be POD ITTL? And where and how that new Judea would be established? And would really all Jews move there? I bit doubt that. It should be close enough and large and fertile enough to sustain all Jews.

And I don't think that all Jews ever would move to that Israel. Even OTL Jews didn't all move to Israel.

Maybe the Roman didn't destroy Judea in the Great Judea Revolted meaning those refugees wouldn't populate Europe

 

[Apple3169]

What would be POD ITTL? And where and how that new Judea would be established? And would really all Jews move there? I bit doubt that. It should be close enough and large and fertile enough to sustain all Jews.

And I don't think that all Jews ever would move to that Israel. Even OTL Jews didn't all move to Israel.

Let's say Vikings converted to Judaism as a reaction to Christian expansionism. This authomatically makes slavs Jews, which are will be future neighbors of Khazars. This will create a Khazar-Slav-Viking Alliance on the North. Which will makes anti-semitism even more severe on Europe. This will eventually make Jews to chose live in a Jewish state rather than a state that is hostile to the Jewish state.

 

[Lalli]

Maybe the Roman didn't destroy Judea in the Great Judea Revolted meaning those refugees wouldn't populate Europe

Perhaps. But eventually Judea would be destroyed if not by Romans by someone else and Jews would are expelled. I can't see Judea surviving centuries. And someone emperor would mess with things so badly that there would be revolt and then expulsion. And there was already Jews in many other places on Roman Empire during 1st century. Even during days of Julius Caesar in Roman city was big Jewish population.

Perhaps more realistic POD would be that Babylon captivity wouldn't end at least not before Jews are fully incorporated to other ethnic groups being just footnote if even that much on history.

Let's say Vikings converted to Judaism as a reaction to Christian expansionism. This authomatically makes slavs Jews, which are will be future neighbors of Khazars. This will create a Khazar-Slav-Viking Alliance on the North. Which will makes anti-semitism even more severe on Europe. This will eventually make Jews to chose live in a Jewish state rather than a state that is hostile to the Jewish state.

I can't imaginate vikings to converting to Judaism only just pissing Christians. And they would lost all of their trade connections. You either converted to Christianity or was out of trade with Europeans. And Europeans would commit several crusades. Furthermore Judaism is not something where people could convert in masses.

 

[Meshakhad]

Maybe the Roman didn't destroy Judea in the Great Judea Revolted meaning those refugees wouldn't populate Europe

I think this is the best approach: prevent the Diaspora in the first place. Although it was really the Bar Kochba revolt that caused the expulsion from the Holy Land. Maybe some charismatic and cunning Jewish leader waits for a civil war, then offers one side a Jewish army if they can rebuild the temple.

 

[Gloss]

What would be POD ITTL? And where and how that new Judea would be established? And would really all Jews move there? I bit doubt that. It should be close enough and large and fertile enough to sustain all Jews.

And I don't think that all Jews ever would move to that Israel. Even OTL Jews didn't all move to Israel.

Ashkenazi Jews largely moved to Poland though. I'd wager if Poland didn't invite them or even expelled them the Ottoman Balkans and Asia would have welcomed them essentially consolidating most of European Jews there.

 

[Jürgen]

I don’t really think the POD is very important, but if people want one, the Christians simply treat Jews like they treated the Pagans of Europe and the early Muslims do the same to the Yemenite Jews. With that the vast majority of Jewish communities have disappeared.

So how will the lack of Jews affect Europe, well we have areas if Europe who pretty much had zero Jewish population until the 17th century like Scandinavia or areas which expelled their Jewish population like England. The Jewish economic niche seem just to have been taken by different social groups.

As for the Middle East, I predict the Armenians and Greeks will simply take up the economic niche of the Jews.

 

[CASSICTOR2]

Perhaps. But eventually Judea would be destroyed if not by Romans by someone else and Jews would are expelled. I can't see Judea surviving centuries. And someone emperor would mess with things so badly that there would be revolt and then expulsion. And there was already Jews in many other places on Roman Empire during 1st century. Even during days of Julius Caesar in Roman city was big Jewish population.

Perhaps more realistic POD would be that Babylon captivity wouldn't end at least not before Jews are fully incorporated to other ethnic groups being just footnote if even that much on history.

I think this is the best approach: prevent the Diaspora in the first place. Although it was really the Bar Kochba revolt that caused the expulsion from the Holy Land. Maybe some charismatic and cunning Jewish leader waits for a civil war, then offers one side a Jewish army if they can rebuild the temple.

That's true mates since someone beside the Roman will probably want to destroy Judea from some unknown stupid reasons.

Judea either had to be independent or like Menshakhad said wait for the right opportunity to revolt

 

[brunohusker]

Honestly, unless the Romans just don’t act like Romans, there is no way they leave Jude’s alone. Maybe they could emigrate somewhere outside of Rome but it might be quite hard to find a place.

 

[CASSICTOR2]

But if they aren't no Jews in Europe, who would incompetent leaders blame for their problems?

 

[riggerrob]

But if they aren't no Jews in Europe, who would incompetent leaders blame for their problems?

Not to worry, Nazis would still find ways to blame gypsies, communists, homosexuals, etc. for all of their problems.

 

[Gabingston]

Not to worry, Nazis would still find ways to blame gypsies, communists, homosexuals, etc. for all of their problems.

So I put my hands up, they're playing my song
T H E B U T T E R F L I E S F L Y A W A Y

 

[Don Corleone]

Maybe the Roman didn't destroy Judea in the Great Judea Revolted meaning those refugees wouldn't populate Europe

There were already Jews throughout the empire. Note the New Testament passage at Pentecost - there were Jews and converts to Judaism there from all corners of the known world, who spoke a variety of languages.

You'd need a POD before the Babylonian conquest.

 

[Duke_of_Darkness]

To actually answer the OP:

• Jews in medieval times served an economic niche of banking since usury was forbidden by both Christianity and Judaism but the usury ban didn't apply to people of other religions. Without the Jews, European banking would be less developed and that usury ban would be done away with quicker.
• Jews could no longer be used as a scapegoat for bad times in European societies. This would either lead to bad rulers being overthrown more often or other groups of people like Gypsies, homosexuals, witches, etc. being more heavily persecuted. There were even people like the Cagots who were just discriminated against for no rational reason.
• All of the Jewish intellectuals and notable people throughout European history wouldn't be around. Others would have to fill in their shoes. This could lead to several intellectual fields being less developed.
• There would be no Zionist movement in Europe nor would there be a pro-Israel lobby in the USA.

 

[Aghasverov]

So I put my hands up, they're playing my song

T H E B U T T E R F L I E S F L Y A W A Y

Nazis... why is the default always Nazis....

 

[the man in the fly castle]

Or maybe there is no Islam, and many of Arabic tribes convince to Judaism? Might be fun if there is a Judaism Arabian Empire cross Three Continents.

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[CASSICTOR2]

To actually answer the OP:

• Jews in medieval times served an economic niche of banking since usury was forbidden by both Christianity and Judaism but the usury ban didn't apply to people of other religions. Without the Jews, European banking would be less developed and that usury ban would be done away with quicker.
• Jews could no longer be used as a scapegoat for bad times in European societies. This would either lead to bad rulers being overthrown more often or other groups of people like Gypsies, homosexuals, witches, and others being more heavily persecuted. There were even people like the Cagots who were just discriminated against for no rational reason.
• All of the Jewish intellectuals and notable people throughout European history wouldn't be around. Others would have to fill in their shoes. This could lead to several intellectual fields being less developed.
• There would be no Zionist movement in Europe nor would there be a pro-Israel lobby in the USA.

Great answer DD

 

[CASSICTOR2]

So I put my hands up, they're playing my song

Nazis... why is the default always Nazis....
View attachment 789102

Because they always the big bad in OTL but maybe they won't even exists because no Jew to blame all their problem and also POD is in the ancient times so yeah

 

[Silver01]

I don’t really think the POD is very important, but if people want one, the Christians simply treat Jews like they treated the Pagans of Europe and the early Muslims do the same to the Yemenite Jews. With that the vast majority of Jewish communities have disappeared.

very hard a belive was some jews had to survive till the end times so they can accept Jesus or get murdered by him