How would Philip IV of France have handled the French succession crisis if he lived 20 extra years and outlived all his sons?

Avrorrange

Avrorrange

Philip IV of France died in his 40s. It would not be inconceivable if he lived an extra 20 years. Suppose that is the case, and he outlived all of his sons, how would he respond to the looming succession crisis assuming all his sons still failed to produce living sons whose legitimacy could not be questioned? Would he have remarried and tried to father new sons? Potential brides? Would he have outright denounced Joan II of Navarre as a bastard as his other son attempted to do? Also, what would he do if he couldn't get more sons? Would Philip have appointed his Valois nephews as his heirs or is there an upped chance that he would appoint Edward III as his heir suppose that he suspected all his granddaughters including OTL Philip V's children were also bastards?

I think his most likely solution would have been to try and father more sons first and likely would have thrown Joan under the bus the Duke of Burgundy be damned.
 
AsukaEMP

AsukaEMP

Well one issue is that by the mid-40s fertility really starts to decline, so while it's not impossible for him to still father children if he remarries his prospects wouldn't be great.​

Maybe he'd arrange a marriage between Joan and whoever the counterpart to OTL's John II of France would be, uniting proponents of the Valois succession with those who believed women could inherit or at least pass claims to their sons.
 
eliamartin65

eliamartin65

AsukaEMP said:
Well one issue is that by the mid-40s fertility really starts to decline, so while it's not impossible for him to still father children if he remarries his prospects wouldn't be great.​

Maybe he'd arrange a marriage between Joan and whoever the counterpart to OTL's John II of France would be, uniting proponents of the Valois succession with those who believed women could inherit or at least pass claims to their sons.
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This!
 
Avrorrange

Avrorrange

AsukaEMP said:
Well one issue is that by the mid-40s fertility really starts to decline, so while it's not impossible for him to still father children if he remarries his prospects wouldn't be great.​

Maybe he'd arrange a marriage between Joan and whoever the counterpart to OTL's John II of France would be, uniting proponents of the Valois succession with those who believed women could inherit or at least pass claims to their sons.
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eliamartin65 said:
This!
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Would that likely have been the case if he seriously believed that Joan wasn’t his real grandchild due to her mother’s infidelities?Another question is whether Edward III would have been a viable husband in place of OTL John II since he’s 100% sure that Edward III is his own grandchild?I would imagine that if Philip IV was still around, he would be more active in aiding Isabella in deposing her husband and therefore Edward III didn’t need Philippa of Hainaut’s dowry? I would imagine that Edward III’s chances of taking the French throne might actually have been upped if Philip seriously believed that Edward III was his only real grandchild(apart from OTL Philip V’s kids) ,and he would have his own incentive in trying to secure Edward III as his heir instead in order to preserve his line on the throne.
 
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eliamartin65

eliamartin65

Avrorrange said:
Another question would be whether Edward III would have been a viable husband in place of OTL John II since he’s 100% sure that Edward III is his own grandchild?
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This could be possible - a marriage between Joan and Ned would be a sure way to unite everything.

Maybe the first son gets France and the other one England?
 
Avrorrange

Avrorrange

eliamartin65 said:
This could be possible - a marriage between Joan and Ned would be a sure way to unite everything.

Maybe the first son gets France and the other one England?
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At this point in time, I think the King of England could perfectly serve as the King of France as well given the English elite was still relatively French.Without the actual Hundred Years’ War breaking out, there probably wouldn‘t be as big of a move to distant themselves from French identity.
 
eliamartin65

eliamartin65

Avrorrange said:
At this point in time, I think the King of England could perfectly serve as the King of France as well given the English elite was still relatively French.Without the actual Hundred Years’ War breaking out, there probably wouldn‘t be as big of a move to distant themselves from French identity.
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So we might actually see an Anglo-French Monarchy form?
 

Nuraghe

eliamartin65 said:
OMG three kingdoms in one belt.

Someone PLEASE make this a TL 🥺
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Well as long as we have a serious pretender to the imperial crown, if we consider that in Otl Edward III was even created vicar by Louis IV, and at the same time there was a prophecy / legend, which would have seen him buried in Aachen together with Charlemagne after becoming his successor..... it seems that in this scenario this popular vision of the period, may actually have a realistic basis from which to start
 

Liminia1

Actually tempted to write this TL if it wasn't for the fact the research I need for this is just insane (already struggling to write one TL ;-; )
 
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material_boy

Part of me wants to say that an Edward III/Joan II marriage feels like wish fulfillment, but it makes some sense considering that it would solve one of the biggest issues of Philip IV's reign (i.e., the king of England owning so much land in France) and joining Gascony and Navarre both to each other and to the French crown would be an absolutely massive boost to the monarchy. I suspect Valois draws a lot of support from local French nobles precisely to avoid a superpowered French crown.

The Scots would be F-ed in this timeline.
 
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