How Many Terms Could Ulysses S. Grant Get? -- REDUX

How many terms could Ulysses S. Grant get?


  • Total voters
    50

Stolengood

Banned
Ulysses S. Grant very nearly did run again in 1876 -- and, as we know, he DID run again in 1880; both would've been third terms. (Had Vice President Henry Wilson not died, he almost certainly would have run in '76.)

But how many times could he have run, and how many times could he have won? And how, and why? All these questions -- including the poll answers -- I'd like you to ask them. :)
 
Anything beyond three terms in my honest opinion, would seem like a military dictatorship, similar to how people saw Andrew Jackson's presidency
king_andrew.jpg

And this would be something the South, would not take to kindly to.
 
I couldn't see more than three. Corruption scandals and the like would bring him down. I still doubt he could get elected a third time to begin with.
 
Only two in a row. If he won the 1880 Republican nomination, he might have been able to win a third non-consecutive term, but in 1876 he was so discredited by the scandals and the massive depression he wasn't winning a third term.
 
I would love to see him do a 1869-1881. 12 Years, three terms. But at best he would need to remain scandal free, as well as hindering the depression.
 

Stolengood

Banned
1880 is a real possibility, though. (That's why I'm frustrated that your poll allows "three terms" only as 1868, 1872, and 1876.)
Well, that's how I accidentally put it in the last one; this was meant to be a correction. My apologies. :eek:
 
Here is why I think it is possible for Grant to have won in 1880 (though not 1876, when as I said, I think no Republican but Hayes could have carried Ohio and therefore the Electoral College):

We have to remember that not only were Gilded Age elections close but that party allegiances were firmly held. There were very few "floating" or "swing" voters; "weak" candidates for a party did almost as well as "strong" ones. It is therefore reasonable to assume that Grant would have won all the states Garfield did except the really close ones.

Now if you look at http://psephos.adam-carr.net/countries/u/usa/pres/1880.txt you will see that there were not that many narrowly-for-Garfield states in 1880. The only states Garfield won by less than four percentage points were Connecticut (6 electoral votes), Indiana (15), New York (35), and Oregon (3). In addition, he won one electoral vote from California. A Republican candidate could have lost all those electoral votes except New York's and still have won 189-180.

So the real question is whether Grant could have carried New York. My answer is that it was possible though by no means certain. Garfield's 21,000 vote margin there looks narrow but compared to Cleveland's 1,000 vote margin in 1884 http://psephos.adam-carr.net/countries/u/usa/pres/1884.txt or even Harrison's slightly-over-14,000 vote margin in 1888 http://psephos.adam-carr.net/countries/u/usa/pres/1888.txt it is not that slight.

One reason Garfield carried the state: Tammany's "Honest John" Kelly insisted on running an Irish Catholic, William Grace, for mayor. Grace narrowly won, but cost the Democrats many Protestant votes, and may have cost Hancock the election. Still, what was important for Kelly was to have a mayor who would let Kelly keep control of city jobs. Having a Democrat in the White House would have been a dubious advantage for Kelly because at best a President Hancock would divide New York's federal patronage between Kelly and Kelly's rival Tilden; and at worst, Hancock might have aligned himself with Tilden or built a rival anti-Kelly power base in New York. It may be that Tammany Hall just didn't want a Democratic president at this time. And this fact would benefit any Republican nominee--including Grant.

Another thing that would benefit Grant as it did Garfield: Hancock was not a great candidate. He gave an interview where he called the tariff a "local issue" which gave Republicans a chance to pounce on his supposed ignorance, as in Thomas Nast's famous cartoon showing Hancock asking "Who is Tariff, and why is he for revenue only?"

Now it is true that there would probably be some reform-minded Republicans who would simply refuse to vote for Grant. These were the so-called Independents who had been Liberal Republicans in 1872 and would become pro-Cleveland "Mugwumps" in 1884. Yet Cleveland only won New York by 1,000 votes that year, despite the defection of the Mugwumps, despite the fact that some pro-Grant, pro-Conkling "Stalwarts" refused to vote for Blaine, despite the "rum, Romanism and rebellion" controversy , despite bad weather on Election Day in upstate New York, despite the fact that Blaine had ethical problems of his own, and despite the fact that Cleveland had a home-state advantage in New York (remember that the only Democratic presidential candidates to carry New York between Pierce and Wilson were all from the state--which Hancock was not). So I would by no means rule Grant out in 1880. If to the reformers he meant the scandals, to many ordinary voters he still meant Appomattox...

0721d12w.jpg
 
Top