In the 1880's they had the Gatling gun as well as the Maxim Machine gun. Thompson Sub Machine Guin showed up in 38, and the Ak47 in 48. would it be possible into introduce either the Tommy gun or the AK-47 in the mid 1880's. tech speaking.
How Early could the Ak-47 be created
- Thread starter Clockwork Raja
- Start date
well, there's the Mondragon which is sort of an Automatic Rifle in 1887.
But I've never really seen anyone say anything positive about it.
But I've never really seen anyone say anything positive about it.
RamscoopRaider
Donor
For the Thompson, I'd say mid to late 1890's at a minimum, that's when the principle involved in its making became adopted (the weapon was designed in 1916), early 1920's for the AK as its gas operated system is more complex
It seems the Mondragón got better with subsequent modifications, was quite accurate in semi-automatic mode, and worked well in dry climates. It was its use in Europe in wet and muddy conditions where it wasn't very successful.
Incidentally, the Mondragón was gas-piston operated albeit of a different type than what the AK used.
If Gen. Mondragón, the inventor of this rifle, had managed to get attention and support for his rifle in N. America (as he tried to do OTL) this kind of automatic rifle may have been off to a better and more influential start. So, say, a perfected auto rifle by the early 1900's and in common use by WW1?
I suspect there would need to be doctrinal changes in how to best use an auto rifle in the various militaries to encourage this sort of weapon earlier.
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Indeed. Fast firing weapons were considered extremely wasteful. The professional officers felt that the troops would 'spray and pray,' ignoring marksmanship.
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Yes, unless it's something along the lines of the Browning M-1895 open air system, which did operate on black powder.
AK-47 will always be invented in 1947, the AK-46 however....!
Just kidding.
I think you can already rephrase the question to: How early can the StG 44 be created.
Techwise it can probably be ready for WW1
However you will need several other (sub) machine guns and assault rifle predecessors to develop the concept sufficiently.
For this to happen you will need to convince leadership of its use and so several conflicts with a majority of close range actions will be required. City fighting and to a slightly lesser extend trench warfare battles will have to occur.
The Crimean War (1850s) already had trench warfare right?
If we can prevent or delay the German unification (Prussian dominance), there will be more "breathing room" for the major powers to challenge each other and for the balance of power game to be played. Allowing for more conflicts (also on heavilly populated german soil) probably speeding up the development of the assault rifle.
To do so Prussian dominance needs to be challenged more, by for example more extended military campaigns (requiring a less dominant and strong Prussia) in the Prussian-Austrian and Prussian-French wars.
I think this could lead to an earlier development for the assault rifle.
EDIT: It could also work if we keep Germany(late Prussia) a powerfull strong nation, but replace Bismark's leadership one with a more aggressive one, like that of Wilhelm II, earlier on.
Provoking more conflicts, with relatively more powerful neighboring nations able to challenge him.
Just kidding.
I think you can already rephrase the question to: How early can the StG 44 be created.
Techwise it can probably be ready for WW1
However you will need several other (sub) machine guns and assault rifle predecessors to develop the concept sufficiently.
For this to happen you will need to convince leadership of its use and so several conflicts with a majority of close range actions will be required. City fighting and to a slightly lesser extend trench warfare battles will have to occur.
The Crimean War (1850s) already had trench warfare right?
If we can prevent or delay the German unification (Prussian dominance), there will be more "breathing room" for the major powers to challenge each other and for the balance of power game to be played. Allowing for more conflicts (also on heavilly populated german soil) probably speeding up the development of the assault rifle.
To do so Prussian dominance needs to be challenged more, by for example more extended military campaigns (requiring a less dominant and strong Prussia) in the Prussian-Austrian and Prussian-French wars.
I think this could lead to an earlier development for the assault rifle.
EDIT: It could also work if we keep Germany(late Prussia) a powerfull strong nation, but replace Bismark's leadership one with a more aggressive one, like that of Wilhelm II, earlier on.
Provoking more conflicts, with relatively more powerful neighboring nations able to challenge him.
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