How could the German Monarchy be restored in the 1930s?

[Somewhereovertherainbow]

Hello all,

I have been recently starting to write my first alternate history story where Hitler dies in WWI, and during the early 1930s the Hohenzollern monarchy gets restored by the German National People's Party (DNVP). The only problem is I'm having a hard time figuring out how it will actually happen, since with Hitler gone the political spectrum in Germany gets different every year, and like I said earlier it gets restored in the '30s and a semi authoritarian government is founded.

So, do any of you know how I could get the DNVP to be able to truimph (or atleast loom over) all the other German political parties and be able to get the monarchy restored?

 

[Jape]

A long time ago I put a barebones TL together where Hitler dies during the Beer Hall Putsch, obviously a lot of butterfly differences to your idea but it had a similar end goal. Basically the NSDAP loses focus, many opportunists drift away and the base becomes Roehm's personal vehicle, further pushing people away, typical fringe party stuff. Goering not wounded in 1923 does not become a drug addict and joins the DNVP leading a modernising wing that creates a sort of Prussian para-facism. Its not as popular as Nazism but unites the conservative middle class and Junkers plus plenty of revanchists across the board - perhaps parliamentary chaos sees the Heer overthrow the elected government? By the mid 1930s Goering is Chancellor over a sham coalition government backed by the military with Ludendorff as president. When he dies in office the DNVP run a Hohenzollern candidate (maybe Wilhelm 'III' or possibly someone less scary to the West). After a few years of stability the crown is reinstated and the Prince-President is made Kaiser.

Given the West's willingness to give Hitler the benefit of a doubt as he provided a strong bulwark against Communism, I think a more traditional, less manic leadership could do even better and get enough good will that a new Kaiser is accepted, particularly if Stalin is starting to prod Finland, Poland and the Baltic States.

 

[Mightyboosh5]

Crown prince Wilhelm runs for president of Germany in 1932 against Hindenburg. Then wins, and consolidates power leading to a restoration of the monarchy.

He planned to do this anyway but his father stopped him.

 

[Cryptic]

The only problem is I'm having a hard time figuring out how it will actually happen, since with Hitler gone the political spectrum in Germany gets different every year, and like I said earlier it gets restored in the '30s and a semi authoritarian government is founded.

Though the details of the political spectrum would change with out Hitler, I don't think the core spectrum would change that much: factional right vs factional left. The monarchy could be seen as a stabilizing middle. I think there is a way to make this happen:

- Prolong and intensify the low scale German civil war. Neither German left wing nor right wing militias disarm and the central government lacks the strength force disarmament them. As a result, on again / off again factional fighting and instability last longer. It then flares again with the global depression of 1930.

- Fearing a leftist victory as fighting and resultant chaos escalate, western nations need an alternative for Germany. Supporting German far right uber nationalists is out of the question. But, a constitutional monarch is different. They are willing to tacitly facilitate installation of such a leader.

- Identify one member of the Imperial German family, or even regional nobility who has genuine leadership charisma. Kaiser Wilhelm is not coming back. A Kaiser, however, could come back. This new Kaiser is installed over a constitutional monarchy that gives heightened (the chaos must stop), but not total power (democracy must be respected) to the Kaiser.

 

[NoMommsen]

- Identify one member of the Imperial German family, or even regional nobility who has genuine leadership charisma. Kaiser Wilhelm is not coming back. A Kaiser, however, could come back. This new Kaiser is installed over a constitutional monarchy that gives heightened (the chaos must stop), but not total power (democracy must be respected) to the Kaiser.

Who ?
Every Hohenzollern would get the same from the head of the house - Wilhem II - as IOTL the Crown Prince : thrown out of the house of hohenzollern and therefore being no Hohenzollern anymore.

Also : I highly doubt, that any Hohenzollern would be acceptable for the Entente powers.
... But from one other "royal"-"hjigh nobility" house ? ...
Would this be acceptable for the ITTL DNVP ? ... a Kaiser NOT from the house of Hohenzollern ?

 

[Somewhereovertherainbow]

Who ?
Every Hohenzollern would get the same from the head of the house - Wilhem II - as IOTL the Crown Prince : thrown out of the house of hohenzollern and therefore being no Hohenzollern anymore.

Also : I highly doubt, that any Hohenzollern would be acceptable for the Entente powers.
... But from one other "royal"-"hjigh nobility" house ? ...
Would this be acceptable for the ITTL DNVP ? ... a Kaiser NOT from the house of Hohenzollern ?

I was going to use another possible German royal house, but I did not know any off the top of my head, and I was worried that their OTL views would not be correct for my alternate history story. I was actually thinking about once using the Bavarian monarchy, also known as the House of Wittelsbach, mainly because that was the area where Anton Drexler, an avid German nationalist, formed a branch of the Freien Arbeiterausschuss für einen guten Frieden (Free Workers' Committee for a good Peace) in Munich (which is in Bavaria), and because monarchism in Bavaria was somewhat strong, there is even a wikipidea article on it. But the main reason I'm struggling with the idea of the House of Wittelsbach coming to power is that they and other Bavarian monarchists just wanted to protect the status of the Bavarian state, not Germany as a whole.

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchism_in_Bavaria_after_1918

 

[Johannes Parisiensis]

Could a more aggressive Little Entente during the Sudetenland crisis lead to a military coup by conservative officers?

 

[Somewhereovertherainbow]

Could a more aggressive Little Entente during the Sudetenland crisis lead to a military coup by conservative officers?

The divergence is the death of Adolf Hitler in WWI

 

[NoMommsen]

@Somewhereovertherainbow

! MIR SAN MIR ! as the usual bavarian would say ... (meaning : WE are WE !)
I would agree, that the moajority of the bavarian monarchists/nationalists looked out or would look out for an independant or autonomous Bavarian Kingdom, than having their king ... subdued/compromised by the "prussian" idea of an empire. Wasn't only Prussia the reson for the war ?

On the other side : a prussian DNVP monarchist would be more prepared to accept some long ago exiled polish grand-duke or alike than a ... bavarian.
(Description of the bavarians in the second or third edition of the "Baedecker" :
"Little thiefish moutain folk in the south of Germany." )

However.
What would you think of Friedrich Christian of Saxony ? Heir as the head of the saxons monarchic house of the albertinian Wettins (since his elder brother became a priest and Jesuit in 1914).
As a "compromise" candidate between bavarians and prussians, who might be acceptable to the Entene powers ? His father, Friedrich August III., was renedered as a quite modern, "moderate" and quite close to the people. He even reformed the electoral system in 1909 away from 3-class franchise (though still an 'unegalitarian' system, but still better than what Prussia had).

 

[Workable Goblin]

Who ?
Every Hohenzollern would get the same from the head of the house - Wilhem II - as IOTL the Crown Prince : thrown out of the house of hohenzollern and therefore being no Hohenzollern anymore.

If Wilhelm doesn't like it, too bad, he doesn't have any actual power. He can rant and rave all he likes in Doorn, but if the (actual, with power) Kaiser insists he is a member of the house of Hohenzollern, no one will pay attention to the sad relic. Of course it will cause tensions between different branches of the family, but that's usual for monarchies anyway.

Just look at what happened when Louis-Phillipe usurped the senior Bourbons in the July Revolution. Although Charles X or members of his line might nominally have been able to throw Louis-Phillipe and the other Orleanistes out of the House of Bourbon, it hardly mattered since Louis-Phillipe was the actual king and therefore his opinion on whether or not he was a Bourbon mattered infinitely more.

 

[James Ricker]

Crown prince Wilhelm runs for president of Germany in 1932 against Hindenburg. Then wins, and consolidates power leading to a restoration of the monarchy.

He planned to do this anyway but his father stopped him.

They didn't call him Willy the stupid for nothing

 

[MERRICA]

Hindenburg doesn't die and shows a firm spine trying to stop Hitler using all the channels he has that may or may not include doing some very petty things.

 

[Cryptic]

Who ?
Every Hohenzollern would get the same from the head of the house - Wilhem II - as IOTL the Crown Prince : thrown out of the house of hohenzollern and therefore being no Hohenzollern anymore.

Also : I highly doubt, that any Hohenzollern would be acceptable for the Entente powers.
... But from one other "royal"-"hjigh nobility" house ? ...
Would this be acceptable for the ITTL DNVP ? ... a Kaiser NOT from the house of Hohenzollern ?

I think a non Holhenzollern would be acceptable. The focus would be on the qualifications of personal charisma and political moderation. Other qualifications would include being "noble /royal" enough to be legitimate and also being un-questionably German. As a result, I think bloodline qualifications would be a distant priority, even if some monarchial purists want a Hohenzollern Kaiser.

Hmm.... Maybe the new monarch could be informally elected (popular affirmation)- well "popular" meaning from a small pool of nobles, leading industrialists, bankers and leading Catholic and Protestant clergy (Bishop level). As a side note, Polish kings were once selected in this manner. The Vatican still does it.

@Somewhereovertherainbow
I would agree, that the moajority of the bavarian monarchists/nationalists looked out or would look out for an independant or autonomous Bavarian Kingdom, than having their king ... subdued/compromised by the "prussian" idea of an empire. Wasn't only Prussia the reson for the war ? On the other side : a prussian DNVP monarchist would be more prepared to accept some long ago exiled polish grand-duke or alike than a ... bavarian.
(Description of the bavarians in the second or third edition of the "Baedecker" :

But the main reason I'm struggling with the idea of the House of Wittelsbach coming to power is that they and other Bavarian monarchists just wanted to protect the status of the Bavarian state, not Germany as a whole.

If I remember right, Swabia was seen as being a balancing point between Barvarian and Prussian cultures. As a side note, Swabia was also the home of Count Klaus von Stauffenberg, the officer who attempted to kill Hitler.

In our time line, Count Klaus von Stauffenberg was made of very sturdy stuff. I wonder what kind of man his father was? Though only a Count, perhaps in a time of desperation, he could "count"- get it, get it as a Prince?

 

[Somewhereovertherainbow]

I think a non Holhenzollern would be acceptable. The focus would be on the qualifications of personal charisma and political moderation. Other qualifications would include being "noble /royal" enough to be legitimate and also being un-questionably German. As a result, I think bloodline qualifications would be a distant priority, even if some monarchial purists want a Hohenzollern Kaiser.

Hmm.... Maybe the new monarch could be informally elected (popular affirmation)- well "popular" meaning from a small pool of nobles, leading industrialists, bankers and leading Catholic and Protestant clergy (Bishop level). As a side note, Polish kings were once selected in this manner. The Vatican still does it.


If I remember right, Swabia was seen as being a balancing point between Barvarian and Prussian cultures. As a side note, Swabia was also the home of Count Klaus von Stauffenberg, the officer who attempted to kill Hitler.

In our time line, Count Klaus von Stauffenberg was made of very sturdy stuff. I wonder what kind of man his father was? Though only a Count, perhaps in a time of desperation, he could "count"- get it, get it as a Prince?

Interesting, very interesting. Do you think that any non Hohenzollern's that could become Kaiser or (enter Germanic title here) would be fascist or very right wing? In my planned story, war is going to be a background for the character's near the end, which I'm planning to have started as a false flag operation against the French Republic, kinda like the Germans did in OTL when they dressed up corpses in Polish uniforms to justify an attack. Getting off topic though by saying that, but the point is I want to see if there an atleast semi-expansionist possible monarchs that could work

 

[Somewhereovertherainbow]

@NoMommsen, would Friedrich Christain be up for increased military spending and secret re-armament?

 

[Cryptic]

Interesting, very interesting. Do you think that any non Hohenzollern's that could become Kaiser or (enter Germanic title here) would be fascist or very right wing? In my planned story, war is going to be a background for the character's near the end, which I'm planning to have started as a false flag operation against the French Republic, kinda like the Germans did in OTL when they dressed up corpses in Polish uniforms to justify an attack. Getting off topic though by saying that, but the point is I want to see if there an atleast semi-expansionist possible monarchs that could work

I think any viable monarch was going to be at least center right by inherent disposition. As for moving towards fascism or the far right, I think there could be several circumstances that could pull him in that direction. Perhaps one or more of the following:

- A continuing small scale war with leftist militias moves the new monarch more towards German far right militias
- The Germans miss indemnity payments. The French over react and threaten to annex the Ruhr.
- The French government, alarmed by the chaos in Germany, conducts security sweeps in Alsace and Lorraine. These result in the deaths of some Germanophones as German cultural institutions are shuttered.
- Wild rumors sweep Germany that the French / British are encouraging clashes in the Danzig area with Poland as a pretense to take direct control over Germany as a "perpetual aggressor". The new Kaiser then goes right.... .

 

[Somewhereovertherainbow]

I think any viable monarch was going to be at least center right by inherent disposition. As for moving towards fascism or the far right, I think there could be several circumstances that could pull him in that direction. Perhaps one or more of the following:

- A continuing small scale war with leftist militias moves the new monarch more towards German far right militias
- The Germans miss indemnity payments. The French over react and threaten to annex the Ruhr.
- The French government, alarmed by the chaos in Germany, conducts security sweeps in Alsace and Lorraine. These result in the deaths of some Germanophones as German cultural institutions are shuttered.
- Wild rumors sweep Germany that the French / British are encouraging clashes in the Danzig area with Poland as a pretense to take direct control over Germany as a "perpetual aggressor". The new Kaiser then goes right.... .

Interesting, but how would the German public as a whole react? While I do not understand German politics that well, including back then in what we would call the Weimar Era, but a part of me feels like some center left, social democrat, and leftist parties will probably not respond to it well

 

[Cryptic]

Interesting, but how would the German public as a whole react? While I do not understand German politics that well, including back then in what we would call the Weimar Era, but a part of me feels like some center left, social democrat, and leftist parties will probably not respond to it well

I think most Germans wanted stability / law and order in the streets. Though the center left may show concerns about a new monarch, I think these concerns could be mitigated by emphasizing that:
- the new monarch is a constitutional monarchy and he appears to be simply center right.
- He has true leadership potential and was selected by a consensus of prominent Germans- maybe even a few liberal leaning clergy
- He has called for the immediate disarmament of both right and left wing militants.
- The only alternative is more violence. Heck, what if the far right wingers win- what then?

 

[Somewhereovertherainbow]

I think most Germans wanted stability / law and order in the streets. Though the center left may show concerns about a new monarch, I think these concerns could be mitigated by emphasizing that:
- the new monarch is a constitutional monarchy and he appears to be simply center right.
- He has true leadership potential and was selected by a consensus of prominent Germans- maybe even a few liberal leaning clergy
- He has called for the immediate disarmament of both right and left wing militants.
- The only alternative is more violence. Heck, what if the far right wingers win- what then?

Hmmm. Could I also add if the Kaiser and whatever party backs him the most are able to do some NSDAP economic miracle magic then it would give him more of "loving leader" reputation?

 

[Somewhereovertherainbow]

Crown prince Wilhelm runs for president of Germany in 1932 against Hindenburg. Then wins, and consolidates power leading to a restoration of the monarchy.

He planned to do this anyway but his father stopped him.

Random question, would Wilhelm done what Hitler did if Wilhelm was magically appointed to the office of Chancellor? In Hindenburg's Wikipidea article it says

"The American historian Henry Ashby Turner noted that Hindenburg was always a bit slow when it came to thinking, and many people who knew him as an old man assumed this was just senility when in fact Hindenburg's sluggish mental processes and his rather "simplistic" ways of understanding the world had been well documented from his teenage years on. Hindenburg was a career soldier with no interests outside of the military, a man who rarely read books and even then only read military books, and as such he often had trouble understanding non-military matters, an aspect of his personality frequently misunderstood as senility. Hindenburg depended upon his kamarilla for advice for exactly the same reasons that he had depended upon Ludendorff and his staff in World War I, namely he did not know what to do when confronted with difficult decisions and he needed the help of others to resolve a problem. For the German people, Hindenburg was an image of strength and power, owing to his 6'5 frame and bearlike physique, a man with courtly, polished manners and military bearing, the very image of a Junker officer, but in fact, Hindenburg as president often broke down in tears when confronted with decisions that required deep thoughts that he was incapable of, and despite his stress on loyalty and keeping one's words, Hindenburg was a selfish man who disregarded his friends and freely broke his promises when keeping his promises proved inconvenient."

I feel like the Crown Prince would probably take advantage of this weakness in the President, and apart of me feels like if Wilhelm has the DNVP and a few other parties back him he could gain alot of power very fast and probably pass something like the Enabling Act of 1933