Hohenzollern Silesia

[JonasResende]

At the extinction of the Piasts in Silesia, several duchies were SUPPOSED to be inherited by the Margrave of Brandenburg. The Holy Roman Emperor, Leopold I blocked this inheritance, and Friedrich of Prussia charged his heirs to reclaim ths inheritance at a later date.

Now, the idea I've got for a min-TL, takes Karl Emil of Brandenburg surviving and his marriage to the emperor's half-sister, Maria Anna Josefa, goes through. The Silesian Piasts still go extinct. And in exchange for allowing the Hohenzollerns to inherit those lands, the emperor stipulates that the Hohenzollerns need to renounce their portion of the Julich-Cleves inheritance in favor of the Pfalz-Neuburg line. (who aren't inheriting the Electorate, since Karl II has a son).

Without having a Rhenish portion to concentrate on, how does Brandenburg-Prussia develop?

 

[Monter]

Source on that? The Silesian duchies were mediate fiefs under the Bohemian crown, so once a Duke died without heirs the lands devolved to the crown.In fact the first Silesian Piast to die out were the ones in Opole in 1532, more than 100 years before Leopold.

 

[JonasResende]

Walter Henry Nelson's The Soldier Kings: A History of the House of Hohenzollern.

It mentions that at the time of the Hereditary Prince Karl Emil's death, negotiations were ongoing in Vienna for him to marry the Archduchess, and the emperor would acknowledge the Hohenzollern inheritance of "certain" Silesian duchies - based on an agreement drawn up between the Piasts and the Hohenzollerns at some point.

That said, the way I see it, is that this territory handover occurs as part of the archduchess' dowry. However, since the Habsburgs have a history of stiffing people on the subject of territories granted by a marriage contract (Sigismund III/Wladyslaw IV of Poland married three archduchesses one after the other, and was supposed to be endowed with certain dukedoms in Silesia (Opole was one of them), but the Habsburgs refused to honor their end of the bargain), I foresee Leopold acting no differently. This leads to bad blood between the Habsburgs and the Hohenzollerns and maybe even war, since Karl Emil would likely declare against Vienna if they re-neg on their part of the deal.

 

[JonasResende]

bump

 

[JonasResende]

No one have any ideas how a more eastern-centered Brandenburg-Prussia would develop?

 

[JonasResende]

Would it be completely insane to think that a Brandenburg-Prussia more focused on the east would come into conflict at some or other point (probably sooner rather than later)?

 

[krieger]

No one have any ideas how a more eastern-centered Brandenburg-Prussia would develop?

Karl Emil (if he focuses his attention on the East) could do the same what Frederick Augustus II did. Run for Polish crown. Brandenburg had already bribed a fair share of Polish magnates and Hohenzollern had a close ties to mighty Radziwiłł family (Karl Emil himself died while serving in "Regiment Radziwiłł zu FuB) and if he marries Maria Anna Josepha he may gather suport of Leopold I. So after Sobieski's death Karl Emil will become Karol I of Poland. He'd still ally with Russia against Sweden, but (unlike Augustus) he was described as capable commander and Brandenburg troops were better than Saxon, so more chances of capturing Riga and quick victory. If this happens than Hohenzollerns (who would get not only Livonia, but also Western Pomerania) would try to enforce absolutism in PLC and unlike his precedessors Karol I would have a good chance of succeeding in it - he controls a lot of valuable land and has qualified troops, which might be used to surpass rebellion. He'd make the throne hereditary and reduce Sejm's power (completely abolishing it would be too much, but it could be transformed into a puppet of King) and spend the rest of his life stabilizing his power over PLC @Jan Olbracht.

 

[AnonymousSauce]

Karl Emil (if he focuses his attention on the East) could do the same what Frederick Augustus II did. Run for Polish crown. Brandenburg had already bribed a fair share of Polish magnates and Hohenzollern had a close ties to mighty Radziwiłł family (Karl Emil himself died while serving in "Regiment Radziwiłł zu FuB) and if he marries Maria Anna Josepha he may gather suport of Leopold I. So after Sobieski's death Karl Emil will become Karol I of Poland. He'd still ally with Russia against Sweden, but (unlike Augustus) he was described as capable commander and Brandenburg troops were better than Saxon, so more chances of capturing Riga and quick victory. If this happens than Hohenzollerns (who would get not only Livonia, but also Western Pomerania) would try to enforce absolutism in PLC and unlike his precedessors Karol I would have a good chance of succeeding in it - he controls a lot of valuable land and has qualified troops, which might be used to surpass rebellion. He'd make the throne hereditary and reduce Sejm's power (completely abolishing it would be too much, but it could be transformed into a puppet of King) and spend the rest of his life stabilizing his power over PLC @Jan Olbracht.

So ITTL Poland:Hohenzollerns::Hungary:Habsburgs?

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Karl Emil (if he focuses his attention on the East) could do the same what Frederick Augustus II did. Run for Polish crown. Brandenburg had already bribed a fair share of Polish magnates and Hohenzollern had a close ties to mighty Radziwiłł family (Karl Emil himself died while serving in "Regiment Radziwiłł zu FuB) and if he marries Maria Anna Josepha he may gather suport of Leopold I. So after Sobieski's death Karl Emil will become Karol I of Poland. He'd still ally with Russia against Sweden, but (unlike Augustus) he was described as capable commander and Brandenburg troops were better than Saxon, so more chances of capturing Riga and quick victory. If this happens than Hohenzollerns (who would get not only Livonia, but also Western Pomerania) would try to enforce absolutism in PLC and unlike his precedessors Karol I would have a good chance of succeeding in it - he controls a lot of valuable land and has qualified troops, which might be used to surpass rebellion. He'd make the throne hereditary and reduce Sejm's power (completely abolishing it would be too much, but it could be transformed into a puppet of King) and spend the rest of his life stabilizing his power over PLC @Jan Olbracht.

That would be situation similar to the one from this TL:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/prussian-augustus-the-strong.457582/
Although with Hohenzollerns joining GNW.

 

[krieger]

So ITTL Poland:Hohenzollerns::Hungary:Habsburgs?

Not really. Poland will be a center of Hohenzollern empire. And there is fair share of Poles (sometimes even in nobility) in Prussia, while Austria proper had no native Hungarian population.

That would be situation similar to the one from this TL:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/prussian-augustus-the-strong.457582/
Although with Hohenzollerns joining GNW.

But not identical. The most logical conclusion in mentioned thread is GNW not happening at all. Here it happens. It is a change.