Hohenzollern Norway, 1815

[T-Mag 3004]

So having looked up every single Norway related thread I could find, I came across this one a long time ago and has been fascinating me ever since I found it

Here it is: https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...rlier-independent-hohenzollern-norway.358658/

And ever since I found it, the idea of Norway being independent roughly a century before OTL intrigued me. And I really want to restore that sort of idea.

I'm not, and don't want to rip off the former TL, it's a really well-written timeline, but some of the aspects in it do I wish to keep, such as:

[1] - A minor POD, the lands of the Norwegian Realm are kept with Norway.

[2] - The main POD. IOTL Bernadotte was urged to send more troops south to fight in Germany against the French, and ITTL he listened. This means fewer troops in Norway, meaning less of a win on Sweden's behalf, stretching the war long enough to where the rest of Europe, tired of the fighting, ends it for them.

I also want the throne to go to someone else than Wilhelm. (mostly because I don't wanna butterfly away a united Germany). So instead, I want to have Prince Charles of Prussia, third son of Frederick William III, (the Prussian king at the time). Of course, the logical choice would've been Wilhelm, as his older brother was in the line to the throne anyway, and only through hindsight do we know his reign was "shorter than expected"

O.K so the TL mentions things like foreign relations and the alternate infrastructure of this alternate Norway, and while that's important I'm more interested in the overseas potential (I.E: Colonies). I have a list of areas I can imagine as a potential Norwegian colony, regardless of if their "empire" would be a profitable one or not.

 

[arctic warrior]

Interesting TL - not implausible that Christian Frederick is made to choose which Kingdom he wants; interesting thing he may decide not to accept the Great Powers solution. Actually Christian Frederick didn't declare himself King he was elected by the Norwegians! So things may be a little difficult to implement.
Besides his uncle the King of Denmark didn't have any sons so his one daughter was married to Christian Frederick's brother Ferdinand and the other daughter to Christian Frederick's son Frederick (7).
Christian Frederick was the rare really bright head of Danish Kings and he might well have abandoned Denmark for the Norwegian throne. His brother Ferdinand might then have become King of Denmark and perhaps wouldn't have been such a bad choice.
So there's a little more to it than just substituting Christian Frederick with some Hohenzollern.

 

[T-Mag 3004]

on

Interesting TL - not implausible that Christian Frederick is made to choose which Kingdom he wants; interesting thing he may decide not to accept the Great Powers solution. Actually Christian Frederick didn't declare himself King he was elected by the Norwegians! So things may be a little difficult to implement.
Besides his uncle the King of Denmark didn't have any sons so his one daughter was married to Christian Frederick's brother Ferdinand and the other daughter to Christian Frederick's son Frederick (7).
Christian Frederick was the rare really bright head of Danish Kings and he might well have abandoned Denmark for the Norwegian throne. His brother Ferdinand might then have become King of Denmark and perhaps wouldn't have been such a bad choice.
So there's a little more to it than just substituting Christian Frederick with some Hohenzollern.

I think you're glorifying him a bit too much, sure he's an important figure in modern day and counted as one of Norway's kings, Heck, there are many streets renamed in his honour. Keyword "Renamed". However, that doesn't take away his long-term goal of reuniting Norway under Denmark, only under a more "fair" union.

Plus, He managed to piss off every single great power of the time, noone wanted Norway's independence at the time. Everyone supported Bernadotte and his proposed union with Sweden.

"Die Menschen? Was haben sie gegen den Willen ihrer Herrscher zu sagen? Das würde bedeuten, die Welt auf den Kopf zu stellen."

This quote is from the Austrian Emissary at the time August Ernst Steigentesch. It's quite an infamous quote and perfectly tells you everything about how the world "worked" back then. The quote basically says that the People have no right to speak up against the ones on top, and doing would so would give us another France situation. And why every great power wanted France to return to the "norm" of the time. Christian Frederik was considered to "radical" in his logic at the time, just like Napoléon.

If Norway somehow manages to show the great powers that they will not submit, then they could either A) invade the country and force them to join Sweden. B) Starve them into submission (which indirectly happened OTL) or C) Give the country independence with one of the great powers' dynasties on the throne.

As for the Hohenzollern choice, it certainly makes more sense then than a century later when the Germans (and Prussians alike) are considered the worst for their want to expand and all this stuff (Though mostly cos of Wilhelm II). Back when Prussia was seen as one of the good guys who helped defeat the "evil" Napoléon. It would make sense to have a Hohenzollern to take the country at the time, Norway had a low population and barely any military equipment. All they really had was Determination, Nationalism and Hopes for independence. Giving such a tiny country to the Hohenzollern realm at the time works out for everyone. (Mostly)

So Christian would still return to Denmark disappointed, but maybe happy that the Norwegians got what he fought for, He'll be likely disappointed in the long run as the country is independent, but not under his or Denmark's rule.

So no it's not just switching him out for any Hohenzollern, Norwegians cared more about becoming independent rather than who makes that happen, When Charles of Prussia is offered the throne (and accepts), the Norwegians will be, in the original TL's words:
The sound of clapping overtook the heir as the people cheered - the four hundred years of darkness was finally, finally over.

 

[arctic warrior]

Well I wasn't glorifying the man You got that wrong but ok my last sentence may be read that I wasn't aware of the situation. He was elected and I do know that not all Norwegians wanted him. If you read what I wrote you noticed that I didn't want him to take both Norway and Denmark but make a choice which could well be abandoning Denmark. But do remember that I read mainly Danish history works and no matter how much academicians try to stay objective they even originate from one country and culture and that will influence their reasoning.
I was in no way objecting to Christian Frederick getting kicked out I was merely pointing to that he might not go voluntarily. I know very well the intentions of the Great Powers of the day - You don't have to lecture me on that!

 

[T-Mag 3004]

Well I wasn't glorifying the man You got that wrong but ok my last sentence may be read that I wasn't aware of the situation. He was elected and I do know that not all Norwegians wanted him. If you read what I wrote you noticed that I didn't want him to take both Norway and Denmark but make a choice which could well be abandoning Denmark. But do remember that I read mainly Danish history works and no matter how much academicians try to stay objective they even originate from one country and culture and that will influence their reasoning.
I was in no way objecting to Christian Frederick getting kicked out I was merely pointing to that he might not go voluntarily. I know very well the intentions of the Great Powers of the day - You don't have to lecture me on that!

ok, Fair enough, I study mostly Norwegian history, so we clashed there I guess. However, he was still disliked by every great power of the time due to his "schemes". Besides, willpower and determination alone can't help once the already small population at the time slowly dies off due to the British blockade. He did reject two imports of grain from Sweden IOTL as a protest after all. But I do agree with you that if he had the choice, he would've abandoned Denmark no doubt. But like I said, it's highly unlikely he would be given said choice at all.

He sort of knew that once he somehow got the country independent, that independence would only last for as long as he was alive. Whether or not he would still be considered the hereditary prince of Denmark, so once his son Frederik takes power, (assuming he's allowed to come) there probably would have been a succession crisis in which the danes had the strongest claim to, likely resulting in a "peaceful" reunification which was his long-term goal. As well as not wanting to lose Norway to their arch nemesis Sweden was one of the reasons he fought for the country's independence, as that would get the most attention amongst the powers. And since Danish history is your thing. You likely already know why he was in Norway in the first place.

I might make a separate thread about that. As to my knowledge, this is the only thread previously to ask that question.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/king-christian-frederick-of-norway.342241/