Fatima Jinnah was the daughter of Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan. She ran for the Pakistani 1964 “election”, but as this was one of Pakistan’s periods of dictatorship, voter suppression led to the military junta wining. If, say, a popular revolution happened in the 1960s, perhaps over Pakistan getting beat by India in 1964 (which is very easy, as Pakistan was literally running out of artillery towards the end of the war), I can imagine her as Prime Minister much like Bhutto, except with much more support from Bengalis (Sheikh Rahman apparently supported her), and so, no genocide on her watch. Of course, I strongly suspect she would be overthrown after a few years by the military after they tire of this whole “democracy” thing, but in the interim, perhaps she could give East Pakistan sufficient autonomy that it breaks away from Pakistan much more easily than OTL.
"Hipster" PMs and Presidents Thread
- Thread starter Comisario
- Start date
Hey man, stop going into my brain!
Hey! I was just curious if Pakistan had an potential Indira Gandhi equivalent!
Sadly, research tells me that Fatima Jinnah was a votary of democracy, so that idea goes down the drain.
She can easily have her life extended for a few years, at least before a military coup, especially if you believe she was murdered by the Pakistani junta.
With the info you've given on Fatima Jinnah about East Pakistan I might have to revise significant amounts of my ideas. Maybe East Pakistan becomes independent in the 80s?
So I've just learned that Charles Bronson's parents were quite prominent in their local Conservative party.
"The Most Dangerous Tory In Britain", anyone?
"The Most Dangerous Tory In Britain", anyone?
Looking through early American history and found some interesting people:
John Dickinson (1732-1808) - Penman of the Revolution and author of the "Liberty Song." Attended the Continental Congress, the Annapolis Convention, and the Constitutional Convention. However, while he supported the Revolution, he was extremely reluctant to embrace secession from Britain and opposed the Declaration of Independence when it was first proposed. This would make in an interesting choice for president, but would also serve as fodder for his enemies. He was the largest slaveholder in Delaware, but due to Quaker influences in his family, he freed all of his slaves between 1776 and 1786.
William Few (1748-1828) - Famous rags-to-riches frontiersman before Andrew Jackson or Davy Crockett. He was born in Maryland and moved to North Carolina, where his family got involved in the War of the Regulation, a populist revolt against British authorities from 1765-1771. Few joined the Georgian militia during the Revolutionary War and later represented the state in the Constitutional Convention and the first Senate. He supported the Constitution, but joined the Democratic-Republicans after its ratification and opposed Federalist policies like the National Bank. He moved to New York City in 1799 and continued to hold local offices. He comes off as a Cincinnatus type who didn't want to hold public office, but kept getting elected to it anyway. Unlike most Southern Republicans, he opposed slavery.
Gouverneur Morris (1752-1816) - Most famous for writing the Preamble to the Constitution. In politics, Morris was a typical high Federalist like his friend Alexander Hamilton, supporting a strong federal government, lifetime appointments of officials, and a quasi-aristocracy. However, he's probably also the Founding Father with the most fun facts about him: he had a peg leg from a 1780 carriage accident, carried out an affair with Talleyrand's mistress in the Louvre while Ambassador to France, first married when he was fifty-seven to a thirty-five-year-old that had previously been accused of murdering her own illegitimate child, and died after attempting self surgery of a urinary track blockage using a whalebone catheter. During the War of 1812, Morris advocated for New York/New England secession from the Union, which could also make him a potential leader of an independent New England.
John Taylor of Caroline (1753-1824) - Virginian Anti-Federalist politician/philosopher who strongly supported states' rights, agrarian democracy, and secularism and wrote some early critiques of capitalism. However, he was also a proto-Calhoun who provided intellectual defenses for slavery even though he thought it was immoral. Could serve as a stand-in for Thomas Jefferson or other Democratic-Republican leaders.
Albert Gallatin (1761-1849) - Swiss aristocrat who got bored of college and moved to America with a friend to join the Revolution. He led the Democratic-Republicans in the House, served as Jefferson and Madison's Treasury Secretary (during which time he advised them against abolishing the national bank and became an early advocate of internal improvements), kept the nation's finances in order during the War of 1812, and helped negotiate the Treaty of Ghent. The closest he came to the presidency was 1824, when he was chosen as William Crawford's running mate, but he didn't want the position and withdrew due to his opponents' smear campaigns. After retiring from politics, he formed the American Ethnological Society, which studies Native American language and culture. He would be a good choice for a foreign-born president (eligible as he was a citizen when the Constitution was ratified).
EDIT: Another interesting one, though unlikely to become president
Humphrey Marshall (1760-1841) - An "aristocratic lawyer with a sarcastic tongue" most famous for his 1809 duel with Henry Clay. He served as Senator from Kentucky from 1795-1801, but, as a staunch Federalist, failed to win reelection. Additionally, he was controversial for being "zealously antireligious" and self-publishing a number of pamphlets criticizing religion. Comes off as sort of a proto-H.L. Mencken.
John Dickinson (1732-1808) - Penman of the Revolution and author of the "Liberty Song." Attended the Continental Congress, the Annapolis Convention, and the Constitutional Convention. However, while he supported the Revolution, he was extremely reluctant to embrace secession from Britain and opposed the Declaration of Independence when it was first proposed. This would make in an interesting choice for president, but would also serve as fodder for his enemies. He was the largest slaveholder in Delaware, but due to Quaker influences in his family, he freed all of his slaves between 1776 and 1786.
William Few (1748-1828) - Famous rags-to-riches frontiersman before Andrew Jackson or Davy Crockett. He was born in Maryland and moved to North Carolina, where his family got involved in the War of the Regulation, a populist revolt against British authorities from 1765-1771. Few joined the Georgian militia during the Revolutionary War and later represented the state in the Constitutional Convention and the first Senate. He supported the Constitution, but joined the Democratic-Republicans after its ratification and opposed Federalist policies like the National Bank. He moved to New York City in 1799 and continued to hold local offices. He comes off as a Cincinnatus type who didn't want to hold public office, but kept getting elected to it anyway. Unlike most Southern Republicans, he opposed slavery.
Gouverneur Morris (1752-1816) - Most famous for writing the Preamble to the Constitution. In politics, Morris was a typical high Federalist like his friend Alexander Hamilton, supporting a strong federal government, lifetime appointments of officials, and a quasi-aristocracy. However, he's probably also the Founding Father with the most fun facts about him: he had a peg leg from a 1780 carriage accident, carried out an affair with Talleyrand's mistress in the Louvre while Ambassador to France, first married when he was fifty-seven to a thirty-five-year-old that had previously been accused of murdering her own illegitimate child, and died after attempting self surgery of a urinary track blockage using a whalebone catheter. During the War of 1812, Morris advocated for New York/New England secession from the Union, which could also make him a potential leader of an independent New England.
John Taylor of Caroline (1753-1824) - Virginian Anti-Federalist politician/philosopher who strongly supported states' rights, agrarian democracy, and secularism and wrote some early critiques of capitalism. However, he was also a proto-Calhoun who provided intellectual defenses for slavery even though he thought it was immoral. Could serve as a stand-in for Thomas Jefferson or other Democratic-Republican leaders.
Albert Gallatin (1761-1849) - Swiss aristocrat who got bored of college and moved to America with a friend to join the Revolution. He led the Democratic-Republicans in the House, served as Jefferson and Madison's Treasury Secretary (during which time he advised them against abolishing the national bank and became an early advocate of internal improvements), kept the nation's finances in order during the War of 1812, and helped negotiate the Treaty of Ghent. The closest he came to the presidency was 1824, when he was chosen as William Crawford's running mate, but he didn't want the position and withdrew due to his opponents' smear campaigns. After retiring from politics, he formed the American Ethnological Society, which studies Native American language and culture. He would be a good choice for a foreign-born president (eligible as he was a citizen when the Constitution was ratified).
EDIT: Another interesting one, though unlikely to become president
Humphrey Marshall (1760-1841) - An "aristocratic lawyer with a sarcastic tongue" most famous for his 1809 duel with Henry Clay. He served as Senator from Kentucky from 1795-1801, but, as a staunch Federalist, failed to win reelection. Additionally, he was controversial for being "zealously antireligious" and self-publishing a number of pamphlets criticizing religion. Comes off as sort of a proto-H.L. Mencken.
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This, of course, earned him the unenviable place as the antagonist in the musical 1776, where he's depicted as a Loyalist arch-conservative who thinks the Revolution is obviously a fad and everyone who sticks with it is going to get burned.
BlackentheBorg
Banned
I've got one -- Hubert H. "Buck" Humphrey, son of Hubert "Skip" Humphrey, son of the OG Hubert Humphrey. He ran for Minnesota SecState back in '02 but lost, then went on to work for Forbes-Tate (sellout!). Lets say he wins the race, then, banking on his family name, becomes a senator?
They're like the Stevenson's, only less successful and not as likely to run afoul of wacky LaRouchite entryism.
This. And Buck Humphrey should indeed get more love. There's a great picture of a beaming HHH holding baby Buck around the start of the Seventies, one of those moments where you could see The Hump was a sweet guy around his family.
One hipster politician I would suggest, is G. Mennen "Soapy" Williams. He apparently had designs on the White House in 1960, and after six victorious elections for Governor in Michigan, a state that last re-elected a Democratic governor in 1916, he has a good record. Very much pro-civil rights, he cried out "no" to LBJ's supposed-unanimous nomination because he viewed LBJ as weak on civil rights.
Built the bridge between Michigan's two peninsulas, pushed forth strong progressivism in Michigan, he could be argued to be "Michigan's FDR", in other words, despite governing in the 1950s.
His nomination would definitely lead to a Southern walkout, but given he defeated the odds in solidly-Republican Michigan and won six times, I wouldn't rule out him somehow winning despite a party split.
Built the bridge between Michigan's two peninsulas, pushed forth strong progressivism in Michigan, he could be argued to be "Michigan's FDR", in other words, despite governing in the 1950s.
His nomination would definitely lead to a Southern walkout, but given he defeated the odds in solidly-Republican Michigan and won six times, I wouldn't rule out him somehow winning despite a party split.
Ronald Munro Ferguson: The most Liberal Imperialist of Liberal Imperialists, a Rosebery ally, and supporter of Scottish Devolution. His career in Britain sank after he attacked Asquith for diverging from Rosebery and became Governor-General of Australia. He might have done much better if Rosebery was a longer-serving/more successful Prime Minister, although he'd have to deal with the Liberals being a different party than the one he'd be able to lead. Definitely more hipster than likely.
Charles Masterman: One of the leading radicals in the Liberal government 1906-1914, close to Churchill and great things were expected of him, until he lost his seat in 1911 on appeal for expenses during the 1910 election and later just kept losing seats that made his Cabinet position a farce. His role in directing propaganda in WWI ended badly, he stuck with Asquith so again lost a seat in 1918, and became disaffected with both Asquith and Lloyd George in the 1920s and had to deal with money problems. He might have had a better chance with a safer seat and the Liberals remaining a party of government.
F.E. Smith: This is one that'd shock contemporaries until they thought about it. One of the few new-bloods to enter Balfour's Shadow Cabinet, close to Churchill, skilled at oratory, and one of the biggest proponents of coalition government. His biggest issue was that his ego dominated and he completely burnt his bridges over the dissolution of the Lloyd George Coalition, as well as being out of touch with the Britain of the inter-war years.
Lord Salisbury: No, not the Lord Salisbury that people know and recognise. His grandson, who resigned with Eden in 1938 over Chamberlain encroaching on foreign policy, took over for Eden unofficially in 1953 during surgery, and was even considered for Foreign Secretary by Eden at one point before he chose Macmillan. Architect of the Salisbury Convention, responsible for delaying iron and steel nationalisation from the Lords, one of the voices for limiting immigration in the Cabinet during the 1950s, and ardent imperialist. He's more the hipster side of things for this thread, but he'd be a good choice for a TL where Britain clings desperately to Empire.
EDIT: I'm not sure if this has been done yet, or if it counts, but here's another one.
Douglas Hogg: Also known as the 1st Viscount Hailsham. Like Neville Chamberlain, he was a beneficiary of the Coalitionist Tories refusing to serve under Law and became Attorney-General under him and Baldwin, prosecuting communists and designing the Trade Disputes Act, and was considered the only rival for Chamberlain in succeeding Baldwin during the late 20s and early 30s. Unfortunately, acceptance of the Lord Chancellorship hurt his chances and meant that his silence during the split over tariffs could be more easily punished than with Chamberlain. What makes him interesting is that, as War Secretary, he advocated for greater rearmament in the Defence Requirements Committee and some historians have argued that he might have been less of an appeaser than Chamberlain had been.
Charles Masterman: One of the leading radicals in the Liberal government 1906-1914, close to Churchill and great things were expected of him, until he lost his seat in 1911 on appeal for expenses during the 1910 election and later just kept losing seats that made his Cabinet position a farce. His role in directing propaganda in WWI ended badly, he stuck with Asquith so again lost a seat in 1918, and became disaffected with both Asquith and Lloyd George in the 1920s and had to deal with money problems. He might have had a better chance with a safer seat and the Liberals remaining a party of government.
F.E. Smith: This is one that'd shock contemporaries until they thought about it. One of the few new-bloods to enter Balfour's Shadow Cabinet, close to Churchill, skilled at oratory, and one of the biggest proponents of coalition government. His biggest issue was that his ego dominated and he completely burnt his bridges over the dissolution of the Lloyd George Coalition, as well as being out of touch with the Britain of the inter-war years.
Lord Salisbury: No, not the Lord Salisbury that people know and recognise. His grandson, who resigned with Eden in 1938 over Chamberlain encroaching on foreign policy, took over for Eden unofficially in 1953 during surgery, and was even considered for Foreign Secretary by Eden at one point before he chose Macmillan. Architect of the Salisbury Convention, responsible for delaying iron and steel nationalisation from the Lords, one of the voices for limiting immigration in the Cabinet during the 1950s, and ardent imperialist. He's more the hipster side of things for this thread, but he'd be a good choice for a TL where Britain clings desperately to Empire.
EDIT: I'm not sure if this has been done yet, or if it counts, but here's another one.
Douglas Hogg: Also known as the 1st Viscount Hailsham. Like Neville Chamberlain, he was a beneficiary of the Coalitionist Tories refusing to serve under Law and became Attorney-General under him and Baldwin, prosecuting communists and designing the Trade Disputes Act, and was considered the only rival for Chamberlain in succeeding Baldwin during the late 20s and early 30s. Unfortunately, acceptance of the Lord Chancellorship hurt his chances and meant that his silence during the split over tariffs could be more easily punished than with Chamberlain. What makes him interesting is that, as War Secretary, he advocated for greater rearmament in the Defence Requirements Committee and some historians have argued that he might have been less of an appeaser than Chamberlain had been.
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He's definitely one of the more interesting political characters of the period, both personally and politically. Maybe if he eased off the drink his career might have been on a slightly different trajectory, but given his character, I don't think that would be likely.
Deleted member 16736
So here's one I found recently. A bit off the wall but that's the point of this thread, right?
David Sinton Ingalls was a distant member of the Taft clan in Ohio who married into the Harkness fortune. In the First World War, Ingalls became the first flying ace in the US Navy. He went on to graduate from Yale and then Harvard Law. He was a member of the Ohio House of Representatives who wrote the Ohio Aviation Code. He served as Assistant Secretary of the Navy under Herbert Hoover whom he befriended. He accomplished all of that by the time he was 30. Later in life he befriended Charles Lindbergh of America First fame.
Despite losing a close election for Governor of Oho in 1932 (54% to 46%), he stayed active in state and national politics and government. In 1952, Ingalls helped run his second cousin Robert Taft's presidential campaign. For the next 30 years he worked in law other various conservative enterprises around the State of Ohio before his death in 1985.
It's not difficult to imagine a world where this man, with all of the political and financial support he would have had at his disposal, might have succeeded in becoming President of the United States with some better timing. Perhaps not losing that race in 1932 or choosing a different office that year would have made the difference.
David Sinton Ingalls was a distant member of the Taft clan in Ohio who married into the Harkness fortune. In the First World War, Ingalls became the first flying ace in the US Navy. He went on to graduate from Yale and then Harvard Law. He was a member of the Ohio House of Representatives who wrote the Ohio Aviation Code. He served as Assistant Secretary of the Navy under Herbert Hoover whom he befriended. He accomplished all of that by the time he was 30. Later in life he befriended Charles Lindbergh of America First fame.
Despite losing a close election for Governor of Oho in 1932 (54% to 46%), he stayed active in state and national politics and government. In 1952, Ingalls helped run his second cousin Robert Taft's presidential campaign. For the next 30 years he worked in law other various conservative enterprises around the State of Ohio before his death in 1985.
It's not difficult to imagine a world where this man, with all of the political and financial support he would have had at his disposal, might have succeeded in becoming President of the United States with some better timing. Perhaps not losing that race in 1932 or choosing a different office that year would have made the difference.
Entering the House of Lords didn't kill his chances, but it certainly weakened them.
What killed his chances was a mixture of the Anglo-Irish Treaty (not a deal-breaker on its own, Austen survived it) and his own personality; which was devolving into rabid anti-socialism through the 1920s and pouring bile over anyone who didn't think that the Coalition was the greatest thing ever. The drinking relates to said devolution of personality, but was more symptom than cause.
You are right, though, that his character doomed his chances.