Before Alexander the Great passed away, he wanted to conquer the rest of the Arabian Peninsula. What if he would have successfully conquered the Arabian Peninsula before launching his campaign against the Mauryans?
Hellenistic Arabia
- Thread starter Montgomerie Ward
- Start date
OTL, some of the Arab polities were at least semi-Hellenized by Roman times. The Nabateans and Palmyra come to mind.
If Al the much-dicussed had brought the Arabian peninsula into his Empire, it really depends on if his successors manage to hold onto it. I suspect they wont and that a number of semi-Hellinized polities form in its wake. Could have interesting wrinkles for whatever indigenous religions might form. Islam as we know it is probably butterflied away.
Attacking Mauryans? How old do you have Alexander living? (!)
If Al the much-dicussed had brought the Arabian peninsula into his Empire, it really depends on if his successors manage to hold onto it. I suspect they wont and that a number of semi-Hellinized polities form in its wake. Could have interesting wrinkles for whatever indigenous religions might form. Islam as we know it is probably butterflied away.
Attacking Mauryans? How old do you have Alexander living? (!)
Delvestius
Banned
This topic comes up ever once and a while. While there were some Hellenic-Christian entities as late as the dawn of Islam (see Gassanids) the vast majority of Arabia is desert, so much desert that hardly any of it was imperialized. So if the British didn't take it, why would Alexander want it? Assuming he could take it with his army, which he totally couldn't. Phalanxes don't work well in desert conditions, especially if the local defenders are mounted nomads...
What Alexander wanted, and what was very much within his grasp, was the coast. Basically, cut out the middlemen in the lucrative frankincense and myrrh trade.
Delvestius
Banned
Indeed the Red Sea would be the only part even worth trying for, but if he went that direction I can't imagine him stopping at Mecca, despite Yemen being a sure mistake.
Although Arabia in this period didn't really have a huge horse culture anyways.
While Alexander the Great conquering this all seems a touch implausible (largely because I imagine good ol' Alexandros running around putting down revolts and shoring things up - regardless of if he becomes ill at some point he's going to weaken and get exhausted.) I can still see a sort of prestige trip being arranged - an expedition to circumnavigate Arabia, strike bargains with the local cities and Kingdoms, and then head back up north to Babylon.
Alexander's army was a lot more than phalanxes though - especially once he'd established as many native satraps and alliances as he did. The army of a surviving Alexandrine empire would be almost unrecognizable. Plus, the Makedonian phalanx was more versatile than the later successor one in any case. I think in some sort of alternate history Arabia could be conquered, but the conquest would have little impact that trade didn't have.
While Alexander the Great conquering this all seems a touch implausible (largely because I imagine good ol' Alexandros running around putting down revolts and shoring things up - regardless of if he becomes ill at some point he's going to weaken and get exhausted.) I can still see a sort of prestige trip being arranged - an expedition to circumnavigate Arabia, strike bargains with the local cities and Kingdoms, and then head back up north to Babylon.
Alexander's army was a lot more than phalanxes though - especially once he'd established as many native satraps and alliances as he did. The army of a surviving Alexandrine empire would be almost unrecognizable. Plus, the Makedonian phalanx was more versatile than the later successor one in any case. I think in some sort of alternate history Arabia could be conquered, but the conquest would have little impact that trade didn't have.
Redhand
Banned
For one thing, phalanxes of the Macedonian variety work fine in the desert, which is relatively flat and even of a surface with good visibility. The bottom line is that a mounted nomad on a camel most likely, maybe a horse, when charging a pike line, will be skewered, and when trying to skirmish, will be overwhelmed by the arrow fire of Alexander's irregulars, and in a cavalry confrontation, would be no match for the Macedonian cavalry. And that is assuming that existing Arab polities could even muster up a large enough force to oppose Alexander, which I really doubt, or that they would even fight him rather than submitting, which I also doubt.
Good thing he has Egyptian Red Sea ports to run supply lines from. Sure, he can't go far inland, but why would he?
Though others are talking about the Red Sea coast, my understanding had actually been that he planned to conquer first the Persian Gulf coast (e.g. Gerrha, etc.), proceeding around the coast and circumnavigating the peninsula until reaching Egypt.
He definitely had the fleet necessary to do it, and the Arabian coast was wealthy in this time (incense, anyone?) He'd probably have succeeded, with much of the coast regaining its independence in the wars after his death.
He definitely had the fleet necessary to do it, and the Arabian coast was wealthy in this time (incense, anyone?) He'd probably have succeeded, with much of the coast regaining its independence in the wars after his death.
The Arab Red Sea Coast is anything but flat. Never-mind the heat and lack of water. Rome had an expedition down there but decided not to bother; it just wasn't worth it.
It would appear, according to recent scholarship, that the Roman blunder in the area was largely due to an amazing degree of misunderstanding about local geography; more or less, they were out for "Arabia Felix" but had no clear idea of the distances involved.
Correct, as far as I know.
The big prize was present-day Yemen.
Which was a relatively well-watered area, with very significant urban literate societies. There are some seriously rugged mountain regions there, that historically defied most attempts at long-term outsider control, as the Ottomans could testify (relative isolation helps maybe more than ruggedness).
I think that, if he manages logistics properly (no small task, but doable), Alex could conquer the area. However, the local kingdoms were powers in their own right. We are not talking some nomadic bands here. Alaxander would be fighting well-established largish states with palaces, archives and scribal traditions, established systems of local governance, well-strucuted military forces, and, critically, a very sophisticated system of water management.
In this era it seems that none of the local kingdoms was in a hegemonic position; Saba's position was seemingly declining, but it is unclear if the rival power of Ma'in was still on the rise.
Assuming there are wars after his death. If he lives another 10-20 years, he'll have an heir that's coming of age.
hate to do this...
it was less not knowing what he was doing and more having a really dodgy guide who kept misleading them, if they had a more reliable guide than the Nabataean called Syllaeus, they would have been able to take arabia felix
it was less not knowing what he was doing and more having a really dodgy guide who kept misleading them, if they had a more reliable guide than the Nabataean called Syllaeus, they would have been able to take arabia felix
Well, to an extent, this happened. Aside from the voyage of Nearchos under Alexander, we have claims that Alexander sent out other, smaller expeditions to the region from Arrian and Strabo, and there were further expeditions to the region under Antiochus III and IV.
There were certainly Hellenistic influences in Ikaros (Failaka, off the coast of Kuwait) and Tylos (Bahrain). An inscription in the latter location credits the dedication of a temple to the "Dioskouroi Saviors" estimated around 140-124 BC to a certain Kephisodoros, "Strategos of Tylos and the Islands," who was at the time apparently a vassal of Hyspaosines, the King of Charax.
Obviously this never turned into major settlement, but it seems pretty likely that there were Greek trading posts and possibly some small number of Greek colonists on the Arabian coast of the Persian Gulf, at least in Bahrain. I would assume that had less to do with controlling the incense trade and more to do with the pearls of Bahrain and providing a base for naval and mercantile traffic. Pliny also describes Bahrain as producing what appears to be cotton, though I have no idea if that was actually a regular export.