Have the Netherland unite Germany
- Thread starter Ward
- Start date
Yay ww1 scenario. The Netherlands don't sign the treaty of London, Britain goes to war with the Netherlands to help Belgium while trying to get the others to sign the treaty. Austria tells the UK where "they can stick the treaty", while Prussia's response is something along the lines of "lickt mein...". Prussia and Austria fight agianst the UK and Belgum. France decides to be a dick cause England keep doing it and sides agiants Belgum. Russia goes what ever and ignores the situation to pick on other small nations.
Now it depends on which way the war turns. If Prussia. France and Austria can focus long enough without fighting each other and the allied forces win the war then Prussia thinks its awesome and members of the german confederation join it. Now if the allies lose and the german confederation gets in the war, Prussia and members of the confederation might unify after being beat by the English/Belgum/French/Russians/Austrians/Germans/Liechtensteiners.
NOW DO YOU SEE WHAT THE DUTCH HAVE DONE?
Now it depends on which way the war turns. If Prussia. France and Austria can focus long enough without fighting each other and the allied forces win the war then Prussia thinks its awesome and members of the german confederation join it. Now if the allies lose and the german confederation gets in the war, Prussia and members of the confederation might unify after being beat by the English/Belgum/French/Russians/Austrians/Germans/Liechtensteiners.
NOW DO YOU SEE WHAT THE DUTCH HAVE DONE?
The Netherlands play a more aggressive role in the Rhineland 1600-1800 and develop less of a separate 'Dutch' national indentity, instead thinking of themselves as well-off Germans and not much more. Assuming not too many major butterflies and some sort of French Revolution/Napoleonesque thing happens and the Netherlanders side with the victors, a new re-partition of Germany to the Netherlands' benefit (Cleves, Munster, Bentheim, East Frisia, etc.) would likely spur on thoughts of reunification.
From there, arm-wave things and BAM! Netherland-unified Germany.
From there, arm-wave things and BAM! Netherland-unified Germany.
Hey another idea... No it doesn't have a world war in it this time.
Luxembourg feels very German so the Netherlands tries to dutchafy it. Which causes Prussia to declare war on them during the liberal revolution to claim Luxembourg, like in the war with the Danes. The Netherlands is steamrolled... What did you expect? Austria gets pissed. And declares war on Prussia. Austria is defeated when it is struck by much harder revolutionary movements which cause problems when trying to fight a war. Germans think that they are awesome cause they beat Austra and the Dutch and unify with Prussia, cause:
1. After the liberal revolution it seems like a good idea to unify into a sort of conservitive empire to avoid more revolution.
2. Prussia is looking really scary.
WHAT HAVE THE DUTCH DONE!?!?!??!?!?!?
Luxembourg feels very German so the Netherlands tries to dutchafy it. Which causes Prussia to declare war on them during the liberal revolution to claim Luxembourg, like in the war with the Danes. The Netherlands is steamrolled... What did you expect? Austria gets pissed. And declares war on Prussia. Austria is defeated when it is struck by much harder revolutionary movements which cause problems when trying to fight a war. Germans think that they are awesome cause they beat Austra and the Dutch and unify with Prussia, cause:
1. After the liberal revolution it seems like a good idea to unify into a sort of conservitive empire to avoid more revolution.
2. Prussia is looking really scary.
WHAT HAVE THE DUTCH DONE!?!?!??!?!?!?
*cough*
Basically my TL All Hail Germania (the Habsburgs unite it as Kings of Burgundy and Archdukes of Austria, except the focus is more on Austria)
*cough*
And the capital would most likely be Ghent if they ruled from the Netherlands.
Have you ever played the game Victoria? 'Cause that sounds exactly like a vicky game I played recently!Hey another idea... No it doesn't have a world war in it this time.
Luxembourg feels very German so the Netherlands tries to dutchafy it. Which causes Prussia to declare war on them during the liberal revolution to claim Luxembourg, like in the war with the Danes. The Netherlands is steamrolled... What did you expect? Austria gets pissed. And declares war on Prussia. Austria is defeated when it is struck by much harder revolutionary movements which cause problems when trying to fight a war. Germans think that they are awesome cause they beat Austra and the Dutch and unify with Prussia, cause:
1. After the liberal revolution it seems like a good idea to unify into a sort of conservitive empire to avoid more revolution.
2. Prussia is looking really scary.
WHAT HAVE THE DUTCH DONE!?!?!??!?!?!?
The Netherlands unifying Germany in the 19th century is close to impossible. The Dutch already had developed its own national identity. The same is sort of true for the 17th and 18th century combined with a focus away from Germany and towards the colonies and trying to make as much money as possible.
For the Netherlands to unite Germany you need an POD earlier, I would say during the eighty year war. Let that war be shorter and more succesfull. Lets say that the Netherlands manages to get all the Dutch speaking provinces and after that they get involved in the German religious wars. In those wars they basicly become protector of the german protestants and the western german states become Dutch protectorates, which means that the Dutch focus shifts (partly) towards Germany.
For the Netherlands to unite Germany you need an POD earlier, I would say during the eighty year war. Let that war be shorter and more succesfull. Lets say that the Netherlands manages to get all the Dutch speaking provinces and after that they get involved in the German religious wars. In those wars they basicly become protector of the german protestants and the western german states become Dutch protectorates, which means that the Dutch focus shifts (partly) towards Germany.
NorcalSocal
Banned
The Dutch don't do anything good. Not even chocolate and wooden shoes.NOW DO YOU SEE WHAT THE DUTCH HAVE DONE?
Baskilisk
Banned
Plus he forgot windmills. So I dock him a point.Chocolate is Flemish, half a point.
Baskilisk
Banned
Plus he forgot windmills. So I dock him a point.Chocolate is Flemish, half a point.
Valdemar II
Banned
Yes I also have a hard time se the Dutch succed in Dutchifying the new population if they also get the Westen Rhineland north of the Mosel. The German part of the population will simply be to big. Plus with that territorium they be forced to interact with several smaller German states, which could be the start of custom union, and we know how those evolve in OTL.
It depends on how much and which parts of Germany they would get. If the get East Frisia, Bentheim and other Low Saxon areas or Cleves and other Low Franconian parts of Germany I think it will be able to assimilate it (assuming it isn't too large). Willem I's megalomanic idea of a Dutch rhineland up to the Moselle, Nassau and Berg, That is too much and too different from the netherlands. In that case the netherlands probably will get involved in the German unification, but I consider it far more likely they get involved the way Denmark got involved. The Germans would conquer the parts they consider German and the rest remains an independent Netherlands*. The Dutch identity was too strong in the 19th century.
*which will be more or less the same border as today, maybe a bit less of Limburg or maybe a bit more, although through butterflies including Belgium is certainly possible. maybe even likely).
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Susano
Banned
The problem is there is a much clearer German-Danish "breakoff line" than a German-Dutch one. Which is exactly why it would be so easy to assimilate East Frisia, Bentheim and Cleves for the Netherlands. What they speak there is already pretty similar to Dutch, and East Frisia is even calvinist. Reversely, however, that means if Germany is in a position to take away so much land from a Greater Netherlands as in your scenario, it could simply subdue the whole thing and annex it as "ethnically German" lands...
Valdemar II
Banned
I doubt it would compare with Denmark, Danish nationalism is fundamental build in opposition to German identity, Denmark was always a poor rural puritan backwater dominated by the more cultivated German identity (which build it own nationalism in opposition to French), Netherland was different, a rich, diverse, cultivated centre which sucked immigrants from the entire Europe to it.
Actualy there are some reasonable borders, the borders of the old seventeen or seven provinces, which is basicly OTL Netherlands (with a bit more or less of Limburg). I suspect this to happen.