Harald Hardrada wins the crown: Collaborative timeline
- Thread starter The_Last_Plantagenet
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Hah great 
now which kingdom is bigger? The Holy Roman Empire or the Anglo-Norse empire?
now which kingdom is bigger? The Holy Roman Empire or the Anglo-Norse empire?Which is the elephant in the room here.
Adam of Bremen who in his description of northern europe mentions vinland also mentions 'norwegian harald' as a secondary source that confirms a hard frozen ocean one day past thule.
If adam can be trusted than a harald of norway (hardrada maybe?) has sailed to greenland at about this time.
Ah, so let's presume it is our Harry (anyone object to me calling the lad Harry?) then maybe in ten years, maybe less, he may lead colonists across the sea and establish an empire spanning the North Atlantic?
HA! The HRE would wipe the floor with the Norwegian Empire, but that is only if they can get their troops on the shores....
Thats the thing, a Norwegian Empire would be somewhat isolationist to a point, because they lacked the manpower of other European juggernauts. I could see them being a major player in the new world or maybe even getting a leg up on trade in the region. But outright conquest? I'm not sure.
Lets not discredit the value of Norse warriors, they had a severe pound for pound advantage, but the problem is, after the advancement of agriculture in the rest of europe, the Vikings couldnt keep up, manpower wise. Thats why Norway fell out of the light and Sweden kind of took the mantle. But with England as the crowning jewel in their empire, who's to say the Viking age is over?
You see, THAT I'm interested in. They could attempt to take Normandy from the Normans, but that might cause a conflict with France, and I'm not sure they would be ready for that. On the other hand, they could even have de facto control over the french coast.
Norwegian colonisation of the north was essentially a russian doll effect.
So a bunch norwegians go to iceland set up a country there, a bunch of icelanders then carry on to greenland and set up three towns there, a bunch of greenlanders then move onto newfoundland and set up a single village.
Everything is one step removed. Newfoundland only has contact with greenland, greenland with only iceland, And Norway no direct contact with anything past iceland.
Now in OTL in the mid 1200s, the norwegian king took control of his kinsmen in iceland and greenland and made ships to and from greenland go directly to norway, skipping out iceland. So greenland became a norwegian outpsot rather an icelandic one.
A more powerful norway who's king has possibly sailed to greenland himself? Might do that earlier.
Not straight away he'll have other problems first. Maintaing control of England, dealing with the welsh and the irish etc. But probably earlier than in OTL.
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Look up the battles in Ireland in the 1100s where norman knights came up against norwegian norse from the orkneys. It was a walkover for the normans due to better siege skills and superior cavalry.
Now post 1066 with william defeated it ain't going to be a good time for the normans, true. But I can't see it.
Lets not forget that Hardrada was in his 50s at the time of Stamford. In great health, but definitely in his twilight years.
Well just for discussions sake say he's managed to have England/Wales/Scotland under his thumb for about 10 years, would he try and fully colonise Iceland, Greenland, and Vinland?
Also what would be the new name for Norse England? Would he change the name at all?
Also what would be the new name for Norse England? Would he change the name at all?
Indeed. Maybe they try and focus arms to counter cavalry tactics? Or do you think eventually the Norse would have to get into line with the rest of Europe?
Oh, sure. But in OTl he sent his son Magnus to ensure norse domincance in the irish sea and again in otl when norway took over iceland the norwegian king never went there. Instead he bought a local chief and sent him to iceland to take over the rest in the name of the norwegian king.
I'm not expecting harald to campaign in iceland himself but it can be on his agenda and he can send a man to do it.
The Norse might start using proper cavalry, they might pick it up from the Anglo-Saxons
That would be interesting. Norse using amphibian warfare tactics?
Also, what would be done with the Normans? William Rufus is still in Normandy. What of him and his claim? Would he try his hand and invade somewhere else? What does the defeat of the Normans do to 'worldwide' Norman prestige? So far, Normans have conquered Sicily, and southern Italy, and possibly a bit of North Africa(?). But the Normans conquering a Kingdom such as England was not a small feat. Would the investments in Norman mercenaries be a tad less ITT?
William Rufu's main worry will be Robert Curthose not England. I imagine the first thing that will happen is Williams sons will go to war over his inheritence.