Harald Hardrada wins the crown: Collaborative timeline

Youngmarshall

So William is dead, France is going to break into a new round of war as people try to fill that gap.

Sweyn of Denmark in OTL, after 1066, menaced a weakened norway and invaded England twice. TTL with the guy who kicked his arse for 15 years running both? Not going to happen. Instead his only options for war is to head east. Sweden, the baltics, Poland etc. I suspect he'll invade Sweden.

Malcolm of Scotland, who in OTl, kept trying to take northumbria and was at war with William again and again. Is buddies with harald, even contributed soldiers to Stamford bridge so probably won't be as bad to deal with. Maybe peace on harald's northern border?

North Wales, is ruled by staunchily pro saxon kings, but in 1069 the two sons of the pro norway anti england previous ruler of wales challenge them. If harald intervenes there and tips the balance then that's the north welsh problem sorted in the short term.

Mann and Dublin are ripe to be recaptured from the irish, it happened in otl by 1072 even with the disaster at stamford bridge so will likely happen here within a year.

England at the time had 6 Earldoms but those earls were part of the army that harald defeats. If we assume Tostig becomes Earl of Wessex and Olaf is also given an earldom (the dane heavy northumbria maybe?) that leaves 4 gaps. Do we think harald would bring in Norwegian earls or try and use natives instead?
 

Youngmarshall

It's the penguin kings baby but I would love to help out with any timeline as well.

It'll be the wankiest of france wanks if it goes on long enough, though. No angevin empire, no hundred years war, etc, etc.
 
Prince_of_Florence

Prince_of_Florence

Do you think that Harald would send political exiles to the Varangian Guard? He earned a ton of life experience from the guard and it would be a good way to wash his hands of any pretenders. Send Godwin Haroldson and Edgar to Constantinople to be rid of them.
 
Prince_of_Florence

Prince_of_Florence

Youngmarshall said:
It's the penguin kings baby but I would love to help out with any timeline as well.

It'll be the wankiest of france wanks if it goes on long enough, though. No angevin empire, no hundred years war, etc, etc.
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I've always been interested in this sort of timeline because of what could happen beyond the isles. A England ruled by Harald would be staunchly against Roman(Papal) influence. Would they even attempt to lend a hand in the crusades?

After Haralds inevitable death, as he was quite old, he would have to rely on his sons to extend his free investiture policy.
 

Youngmarshall

Prince_of_Florence said:
Do you think that Harald would send political exiles to the Varangian Guard? He earned a ton of life experience from the guard and it would be a good way to wash his hands of any pretenders. Send Godwin Haroldson and Edgar to Constantinople to be rid of them.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about that. In OTl the Varangian Guard became majority English after the norman conquest due to english exiles. I was actually thinking that would be less likely to happen in this timeline because of the closer links between the norse and the british. A mass exile like that didn't happen during danish rule of england.

I hadn't thought of harald deliberately exiling saxons there to weaken them. Wouldn't his own experience of quiting the guard and returning to claim the norwegian throne convince him against that?

Prince_of_Florence said:
I've always been interested in this sort of timeline because of what could happen beyond the isles. A England ruled by Harald would be staunchly against Roman(Papal) influence. Would they even attempt to lend a hand in the crusades?

After Haralds inevitable death, as he was quite old, he would have to rely on his sons to extend his free investiture policy.
Click to expand...

Sigurd though? Harald's ancestors in OTL were bought into the papal fold, would the same not happen here.
 
Prince_of_Florence

Prince_of_Florence

Youngmarshall said:
I hadn't thought of harald deliberately exiling saxons there to weaken them. Wouldn't his own experience of quiting the guard and returning to claim the norwegian throne convince him against that?
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Well, just as much as they would have the chance to gain glory, they would have the chance to get maimed by Turks. The English exiles after William didnt attempt another invasion(I believe), so why would any exiles ITT? I could be totally wrong though.. :eek:




Sigurd though? Harald's ancestors in OTL were bought into the papal fold, would the same not happen here.
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I dunno, a success by Harald may entrench his feelings in sons that were on the fence? I would just really want the Norse, and eventual Anglo-Norse to give a big middle finger to Rome.
 

Youngmarshall

Prince_of_Florence said:
Well, just as much as they would have the chance to gain glory, they would have the chance to get maimed by Turks. The English exiles after William didnt attempt another invasion(I believe), so why would any exiles ITT? I could be totally wrong though.. :eek:
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Oh no, I agree that it would work. I'm just thinking that a man who's resume is 'was exiled after losing battle, became member of guard, quit, went home, took the throne of norway and england and became the most powerful man in the north' is not going to think it will.

It's like Henry VII was paranoid about other exiles doing what he did and coming home and taking the kingdom even though in actuality noone else had what it took to do that.
 
Prince_of_Florence

Prince_of_Florence

Maybe Harald could 'oversell' The Guard as a way to do good for god? Play to religious sympathies. While also helping the Byzantines in which he had some friends. Not many after the horrid political shit-storm that was the Greek court, but enough to definitely have a respect for them.
 
The_Last_Plantagenet

The_Last_Plantagenet

He could just completly fuck off the pope and start the Anglo-Norse church?
Haha and also quick fast forward to modern day that would mean Norse-Britain would be closer to the Nordic countries(Norway,Denmark,Sweden,Finland,etc.)?
 
Prince_of_Florence

Prince_of_Florence

king_of_the_penguins said:
He could just completly fuck off the pope and start the Anglo-Norse church?
Haha and also quick fast forward to modern day that would mean Norse-Britain would be closer to the Nordic countries(Norway,Denmark,Sweden,Finland,etc.)?
Click to expand...

Harald was as close to being an Orthodox christian as you could go without explicitly saying so, I've heard. That being said, I'm not sure declaring a big FU to the Pope is really the best thing to do right after half the soldiers in England and Norway are lying dead on the field.

Also, I totally hate you because I had all of these ideas but never put any of them into action because I was worried no one would want to hear them..... I'm totally excited to have a part in your TL though. :'D
 
Prince_of_Florence

Prince_of_Florence

king_of_the_penguins said:
You can't hate me, you love it really ;)
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dGM5c2z.jpg
Goddamn

dGM5c2z.jpg
 
The_Last_Plantagenet

The_Last_Plantagenet

With a Norse upper class and royalty I presume that Norwegian will emerge as the principle language with Anglo-Saxon taking a backseat with the lower/working classes
This would mean French and Latin will either fail to emerge in Britain or stick to the monasteries
 
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