And you wont have to
i appreciate the hard work youve put into it
even if youve got a slight map addiction
Its a full blown sickness. I'm making more too. To show the colonisation. I CAN'T STOP.
Harald Hardrada wins the crown: Collaborative timeline
- Thread starter The_Last_Plantagenet
- Start date
Its a full blown sickness. I'm making more too. To show the colonisation. I CAN'T STOP.
I'm curious, what was your reasoning behind Anglecynn's Heraldry?
It was an hour after my bed time and I wanted to finish it as fast as I could
Well, I haven't had much time as work has been utter shit. But it should be slowing down for the next week or so. I'm not sure about any of the other guys though.
Ah okay, no problems
just a bit of quick fast forward: when and how could the Hardrada dynasty fall?
just a bit of quick fast forward: when and how could the Hardrada dynasty fall?
No direct male heir but daughters. Cousins fight to a standstill before everyone else rallying around a daughter's husband?
Hmm, well if we can have a century of madness from between 1540-1635 that could start with a slightly insane Pope declaring himself Holy roman emperor
So if in this century we've got the Norse civil war, what else really mad could happen?
So if in this century we've got the Norse civil war, what else really mad could happen?
Before we get that far ahead, we should probably have a solid and concrete idea of what the world looks like to get to that point.
So, we have a number of factors to lead up to the "Century of Madness:"
1) Members of the Hardrada Line sitting on the thrones of England, Norway, Ireland, and Vinland, sometimes somewhat unified under one throne (Probably Winchester in England.)
2) Anglecynn presence pushes the reconquista much more quickly than OTL.
3) The Aztec Empire has fallen, as disease sweeping in from the north weakened it and it's Vassal/Rival states, though themselves disease ridden, manage to overthrow that joug.
4) France is slowly centralizing, with the power of the dukes being curtailed.
5) Byzantium HAS BEEN WELL COVERED, though perhaps someone should say something about it's presence and influence during the crusades.
6) MONGOLS, I'm not sure anything we've done will butterfly away the mongols, they could perhaps be the end of the Crusader states/vassalize the crusader states?
7) I suggest that the Pope declaring himself HRE in 1540 happens after a decade of civil warfare, as numerous claimants fight for the Imperial Throne. (A war of the ten emperors, if you will, each backed by foreign influences or powerful nobles.)
I'm probably forgetting somethings...
One thing I would LOVE to see is a colonial Holy Order: A mission of Holy Knights with a charter from the pope to establish themselves in the New World.
So, we have a number of factors to lead up to the "Century of Madness:"
1) Members of the Hardrada Line sitting on the thrones of England, Norway, Ireland, and Vinland, sometimes somewhat unified under one throne (Probably Winchester in England.)
a) Would the Little Ice age have affected this at all? I honestly am of the thought that, despite a greater connectivity between the continents, the Little Ice Age would have spurred the independence of the American Continens.
b) a slower columbian exchange, with diseases introduced to the Americas, allowing for the Natives to develop a greater resistance and have started to resurge by the time europeans have a concerted effort to colonize.
c) At the same time, there is an investiture crisis, as the Scandinavians try to buck the authority of the pope.
b) a slower columbian exchange, with diseases introduced to the Americas, allowing for the Natives to develop a greater resistance and have started to resurge by the time europeans have a concerted effort to colonize.
c) At the same time, there is an investiture crisis, as the Scandinavians try to buck the authority of the pope.
2) Anglecynn presence pushes the reconquista much more quickly than OTL.
a) By 1350 the Christian kingdoms in Iberia are: The Kingdom of Galacia, the kingdom of Leon, the Kingdom of Aragon (With the Duchy of Barcelona a French Vassal), The Kingdom of Navarra, The Kingdom of Anglecynn, which would go as far east as OTL Granada.
b) Because of this, and because of the Stronger Byzantium, there is greater support for the Crusades, and through the crusades, a Kingdom of Syria and Jerusalem that lasts longer than OTL (maybe a couple centuries, maybe permanently?)
c) Despite this, there are significant muslim successes: Sicily and southern naples is conquered by the muslims during the Norman Weakness, and the population is significantly Arabified.
d) Additionally, Word has trickled down from the North of a rich, prosperous land across the sea. Moorish traders, seeking to get in on prosperous trade routes and be a mid-way point on the prosperous arab trade routes send out a number of colonial and trade missions. They establish significant colonies in the Caribbean (Anyone know how to Arabize that?)
e) The Significant wealth of the new world along the Arab Trade Routes increases wealth throughout the Arab world and for it's clients.
b) Because of this, and because of the Stronger Byzantium, there is greater support for the Crusades, and through the crusades, a Kingdom of Syria and Jerusalem that lasts longer than OTL (maybe a couple centuries, maybe permanently?)
c) Despite this, there are significant muslim successes: Sicily and southern naples is conquered by the muslims during the Norman Weakness, and the population is significantly Arabified.
d) Additionally, Word has trickled down from the North of a rich, prosperous land across the sea. Moorish traders, seeking to get in on prosperous trade routes and be a mid-way point on the prosperous arab trade routes send out a number of colonial and trade missions. They establish significant colonies in the Caribbean (Anyone know how to Arabize that?)
e) The Significant wealth of the new world along the Arab Trade Routes increases wealth throughout the Arab world and for it's clients.
3) The Aztec Empire has fallen, as disease sweeping in from the north weakened it and it's Vassal/Rival states, though themselves disease ridden, manage to overthrow that joug.
a) The first Arab explorers who arrive find a patchwork of tribes and petty kingdoms and establish trade with them. Islam finds numbers converts, and a Meso-American-Arabic creole becomes a lingua-franca throughout much of the Caribbean.
b) The Arabs don't have the numbers to truly exert themselves over the natives who are resurging, but arabic merchants and enclaves can be found in many cities of Meso-America, and many Native Rulers have taken Arabic Dress and cultures as their own by 1450.
c) However, by 1450, Iberian and Anglecynn traders have begun to make their presence known in the Caribbean, and preliminary colonies established along the east coast, though, again, the Natives have had centuries to rebound from the European diseases, so colonization is not as easy as it could be, especially with the influx of Arabic fought metalwork from the south.
b) The Arabs don't have the numbers to truly exert themselves over the natives who are resurging, but arabic merchants and enclaves can be found in many cities of Meso-America, and many Native Rulers have taken Arabic Dress and cultures as their own by 1450.
c) However, by 1450, Iberian and Anglecynn traders have begun to make their presence known in the Caribbean, and preliminary colonies established along the east coast, though, again, the Natives have had centuries to rebound from the European diseases, so colonization is not as easy as it could be, especially with the influx of Arabic fought metalwork from the south.
4) France is slowly centralizing, with the power of the dukes being curtailed.
a)without having to focus on England, France puts much of it's focus on the mediterranean and to exert influence on the pope. This does even more to push the scandinavians, who view both the French and the HRE as Rivals, away from the pope.
5) Byzantium HAS BEEN WELL COVERED, though perhaps someone should say something about it's presence and influence during the crusades.
6) MONGOLS, I'm not sure anything we've done will butterfly away the mongols, they could perhaps be the end of the Crusader states/vassalize the crusader states?
7) I suggest that the Pope declaring himself HRE in 1540 happens after a decade of civil warfare, as numerous claimants fight for the Imperial Throne. (A war of the ten emperors, if you will, each backed by foreign influences or powerful nobles.)
a) The Pope, riding high on church approval and acquiring significant wealth from the still prosperous holy land and byzantium (Which, Anglo-Saxon influence as it is, might be catholic?) declares himself Holy Roman Emperor, and the Empire a Kingdom of God on Earth.
b) This could help trigger an ITTL reformation, though I dunno if that's reasonable, since there are already a number of sects that have broken free, not insignificantly the Scandinavian church.
b) This could help trigger an ITTL reformation, though I dunno if that's reasonable, since there are already a number of sects that have broken free, not insignificantly the Scandinavian church.
I'm probably forgetting somethings...
One thing I would LOVE to see is a colonial Holy Order: A mission of Holy Knights with a charter from the pope to establish themselves in the New World.
Wow thomas, youve just covered basically everything
ill see about putting parts of that i ot my master timeline which should be up on here by the end of the week
ill see about putting parts of that i ot my master timeline which should be up on here by the end of the week
I always wondered what would happen if another tribe of steppe horsemen asserted dominance over the region. Not saying we have to butterfly away mongols, just shooing some ideas forward.
Like say the mongols catch an early form of plague and wind up extinct?
Then a previously weaker tribe could take over
Then a previously weaker tribe could take over
Like say the mongols catch an early form of plague and wind up extinct?
Then a previously weaker tribe could take over
Haha, I dont want this TL to become too silly, but I've always fantasized about a Tuvan horde.
Well, ive put forward an idea about the Holy Roman Papacy so i think an idea like yours is perfectly reasonable
we would just have the Mongols take china earlier, then they could go to the area in Indochina where the Plague is endemic, they catch it and spead throughout the Mongol empire
we would just have the Mongols take china earlier, then they could go to the area in Indochina where the Plague is endemic, they catch it and spead throughout the Mongol empire
This could be interesting, actually... instead of a solid, unified horde, you'd likely have disparate raider parties and refugees fleeing the encroaching death. They, in turn would likely spread whatever disease it is to Europe, giving another reason for the century of madness and for the pope to take power, and trigger reformation.
Europe would look very different, too, since, technically, that would keep the balance of power in Russia in Kievan hands instead of Muscovite hands, though the death and destruction would still cause problems.
Thoughts as to it being a hemoragic fever? That's horrifying and terrifying enough, spreadable, but doesn't have to be VERY murderous.
So the horde will fracture into ravenous bands? Would the Tuvans go west while Mongols attempt to stay in China?