Hanoverian Colonies

[Hvalrossen]

Hanover was a polity situated on the North Sea between the Weser and Elbe rivers. It also possessed strong ties with the British Empire due to being in a personal union. The Electorate of Hanover first entered into a personal union with Britain in 1714 when it's ruler, the Elector of Hanover became King of Great Britain. The union between Hanover and Britain would last until 1837, ignoring the Napoleonic occupation between 1807-1814. After Napoleon's defeat the Electorate of Hanover was expanded and reformed into the Kingdom of Hanover.

Could Hannover have leveraged it's ties to Britain in order to facilitate it's ownership of colonies?

 

[raharris1973]

Hanover was a polity situated on the North Sea between the Weser and Elbe rivers. It also possessed strong ties with the British Empire due to being in a personal union. The Electorate of Hanover first entered into a personal union with Britain in 1714 when it's ruler, the Elector of Hanover became King of Great Britain. The union between Hanover and Britain would last until 1837, ignoring the Napoleonic occupation between 1807-1814. After Napoleon's defeat the Electorate of Hanover was expanded and reformed into the Kingdom of Hanover.

Could Hannover have leveraged it's ties to Britain in order to facilitate it's ownership of colonies?

Maybe.

On the one hand, Parliament would have objected to the use of any British tax funds, including even parts of the Royal purse funded by Parliament or British contributions being used to *gift* the Electorate of Hanover a colony or protection overseas.

On the other hand, personnel qualified in colonial and naval and merchant matters in Britain could easily meet with Hanoverian governing and business circles and make plans together by socially *networking* with court circles. And other powers could be wary of directly attacking Hanoverian enterprises head-on, knowing the connection to Britain [though this can be turned around, and also motivate attacks on Hanoverian possessions].

 

[GuildedAgeNostalgia]

1) British don't lose Florida during the American Revolution.

2) George III wants to invest in Florida and turn it into a staging ground to reinvade the US during one of his bouts of insanity.

3) Parliament refuses to fund such a convoluted idea so George III uses Hanover to colonize Florida, making it a majority German speaking colony.

4) George III during his bout of insanity forgets about Florida and his convoluted plan and Hanover officials continue to run the colony.

5) 1837 comes around. Florida has a sustainable large population of German speakers and requests to be a part of Hanover instead of Britain.

6) Parliament agrees to it because it's become a issue with the expanding US and they want nothing to do with it anymore.

7) United States gets too busy with Mexico and the Civil War to ever invade Florida.

8) Florida becomes a colony of Germany when Germany unifies.

 

[Nuraghe]

Maybe.

On the one hand, Parliament would have objected to the use of any British tax funds, including even parts of the Royal purse funded by Parliament or British contributions being used to *gift* the Electorate of Hanover a colony or protection overseas.

On the other hand, personnel qualified in colonial and naval and merchant matters in Britain could easily meet with Hanoverian governing and business circles and make plans together by socially *networking* with court circles. And other powers could be wary of directly attacking Hanoverian enterprises head-on, knowing the connection to Britain [though this can be turned around, and also motivate attacks on Hanoverian possessions].

the only way for this to happen would be a previous development of the situation presented at the Congress of Vienna, where Metternich and Francis II wanted to entrust the role of fedeadmiral of the newly formed German confederation to Hanover ( due to its connections with Great Britain, given that the The other option would have been Denmark which had refused, with the particular task of commanding and administering a navy in the North Sea ( paid for with federal funds, and finding an agreement with England to possibly wean new cadets on their behalf ( 1 ) but this idea was also not accepted ( ending over the years usurped by Prussia ) I believe that if in place of Charles VI there had been a more reactive emperor ( he was not so discouraged by the defeat in the WoSS, the result of which he took very personally ) we would would have been all the prerequisites for developing the Ostend company as a true imperial navy : perhaps by encouraging the electors to participate ( including Hanover ) and by finding an agreement with them ( 2 ), for example starting from making the Rhine a free and free trade zone for interior of the Reich, as well as connecting it to the Danube ( 3 )

of course the British parliament could protest, but without the situation of Charles VI Otl which led to a real blackmail to force Vienna to satisfy their demands in exchange for their support in the war, they can't do anything about it, especially if the king ( as a HRE elector ) manages to obtain funds completely independently of them ( which the king may find very tempting, so as to loosen parliamentary control a little from a fiscal point of view towards him )


1 ) technically the Hanover delegate also hoped to make some further small territorial gains, but he would have been content to increase the influence of his monarch at the expense of Prussia, which this project at least on a soft level proposed

2 ) after all it is not a completely impossible development, Otl in this period there were many attempts to create navies or colonies by HRE states independently of each other ( see for example Prussia ) here it is just a matter of a co-optation of these energies that all flow into the company

3 ) idea in Central European politics : already the Romans and then Charlemagne and finally Maximilian I a wanted to create a similar connection

 

[Hvalrossen]

Maybe.

On the one hand, Parliament would have objected to the use of any British tax funds, including even parts of the Royal purse funded by Parliament or British contributions being used to *gift* the Electorate of Hanover a colony or protection overseas.

On the other hand, personnel qualified in colonial and naval and merchant matters in Britain could easily meet with Hanoverian governing and business circles and make plans together by socially *networking* with court circles. And other powers could be wary of directly attacking Hanoverian enterprises head-on, knowing the connection to Britain [though this can be turned around, and also motivate attacks on Hanoverian possessions].

I don't think Britain would pay for Hanoverian colonies, although Hanover might be able to raise some money in Britain. Hanover would have to sponsor the endeavor itself. However, it's close ties to Britain would lower many costs associated with successful colonial enterprise. Hanover would gain diplomatic protection for it's ventures which would at the very least serve as a deterrent. Associated logistical costs would also be lower as Hanover could resupply in British ports, and benefit from British capital (including ships) and labor/knowledge.

Despite the close ties between Hanover and Britain, I wonder how a colonial conflict between the two would play out? Let's say Hanover settles New Zealand before Britain. This could perhaps provoke a reaction from some British traders and officials in Australia, and Britain proper who desired the colony for themselves. Would the Hanoverian colony be absorbed into the British colonial sphere? Maybe it would be accompanied by a British colony? Might the Hanoverians be able to secure New Zealand for themselves provided that they were there first?

 

[hirsch91]

If you can find a way to make Georgia a Hanoverian colony rather than a British one, there would be some 20-30k potential colonists, some of whom did already go to British Georgia IOTL.

Salzburg Protestants - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[raharris1973]

If you can find a way to make Georgia a Hanoverian colony rather than a British one, there would be some 20-30k potential colonists, some of whom did already go to British Georgia IOTL.

Salzburg Protestants - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You could try, and it is a clever move, but Carolina colony's boosters in Parliament would scream bloody murder over the King favoring his Hanoverian subjects enterprise over his Anglo-Carolinian subjects' already claimed territory. Hanover's best bet is something 'fresh' and away from existing English colonies, companies, and established interests.

 

[GullibleCynic]

Maybe after the Congress of Vienna, France needs to be punished a little bit more for reasons. French Guyana is awarded to a Hanover. Near enough British Guyana to get support, but separated by Dutch Guyana, so less likely to become a defacto extension of the British colony

 

[Hvalrossen]

Maybe after the Congress of Vienna, France needs to be punished a little bit more for reasons. French Guyana is awarded to a Hanover. Near enough British Guyana to get support, but separated by Dutch Guyana, so less likely to become a defacto extension of the British colony

If Hanover was expanded during the Congress of Vienna beyond what happened in our timeline. Then the most likely expansion would have been Heligoland. Heligoland would simply be an expansion of mainland Hanover, not an overseas colony. Unless one is being semantic.

Hanover would have been well served in it's quest for a colony at the Congress of Vienna if it already possessed a overseas territory.

 

[GunterW]

Where could Hannover have colonies in the early 1800s? By then, I think anything in the Americas would not be feasible unless you get other another country to sell a Caribbean Island, perhaps Sweden or Denmark?

They could establish a trading station/fort somewhere along the Gulf of Guinea or the Swahili coast, but would that even be profitable? Slavery would be a no go, considering UK-Hannover links.

Perhaps they get a concession in India, Portugal and France had a few, most were relatively obscure. The East Indies would upset the Netherlands, who are in a much better position there.

I just don’t see a settler colony established in Australasia, if Hanoverians wanted to emigrate, wouldn’t it be more practical to go to the US, or somewhere else under British
protection?

I think somewhere on the Indian Ocean would be the most feasible location, the Austrians had a presence on the Nicobar Islands, all is needed is a few wealthy merchants and perhaps King George IV or William IV to invest in the venture (as a private individual) to get a charter and then have a few explorers-adventurers get going. Eventually, if successful, Hannover can claim jurisdiction over them.

I think Hannover would be a tier 3 colonial player, on par with Sweden and Denmark in the 1800s.
Tier 1: UK, France (large global holdings)
Tier 2: Netherlands, Portugal, Belgium, Spain (sizable regional holdings)
Tier 3: Sweden, Denmark, Hannover, Austria (small, scattered outposts)

I left Italy and Germany out because who knows if there is even going to be a unified Germany or Italy with this POD.

 

[Hvalrossen]

Where could Hannover have colonies in the early 1800s? By then, I think anything in the Americas would not be feasible unless you get other another country to sell a Caribbean Island, perhaps Sweden or Denmark?

They could establish a trading station/fort somewhere along the Gulf of Guinea or the Swahili coast, but would that even be profitable? Slavery would be a no go, considering UK-Hannover links.

Perhaps they get a concession in India, Portugal and France had a few, most were relatively obscure. The East Indies would upset the Netherlands, who are in a much better position there.

I just don’t see a settler colony established in Australasia, if Hanoverians wanted to emigrate, wouldn’t it be more practical to go to the US, or somewhere else under British
protection?

I think somewhere on the Indian Ocean would be the most feasible location, the Austrians had a presence on the Nicobar Islands, all is needed is a few wealthy merchants and perhaps King George IV or William IV to invest in the venture (as a private individual) to get a charter and then have a few explorers-adventurers get going. Eventually, if successful, Hannover can claim jurisdiction over them.

I think Hannover would be a tier 3 colonial player, on par with Sweden and Denmark in the 1800s.
Tier 1: UK, France (large global holdings)
Tier 2: Netherlands, Portugal, Belgium, Spain (sizable regional holdings)
Tier 3: Sweden, Denmark, Hannover, Austria (small, scattered outposts)

I left Italy and Germany out because who knows if there is even going to be a unified Germany or Italy with this POD.

Where could Hanover have colonies with a point of diverge in the early 1800s? As you mentioned they could have been granted one as a result of the Congress of Vienna at the expense of France. Which would amount to a Caribbean island, French Guinea or some French holdings on the African coast, for example Senegal. Or they might have been granted a possession in the Indian Ocean, perhaps Reunion?

If Hanover had a settler colony in New Zealand then it would receive migrants even if it had to compete with USA. Those who chose emigrating to New Zealand would have a different profile than those who moved to USA. Most German emigrants are still likely to prefer to emigrate to USA even with a Hanoverian colony in New Zealand. Seeing as New Zealand would be more expensive to reach, and would have a higher cost upfront when establishing oneself. This would be a result of both New Zealand's isolation and the lack of development compared to USA. Despite this a population of settlers could establish itself, and become the main cultural element.

Madagascar is perhaps the most promising territory for a settler colony at his point in time besides New Zealand. However, it would have to come as a result of a venture founded by Hanover that would establish itself before France. Hanoverian Madagascar would also depend diplomatically on British support. I think if Hanover committed itself to funding such a venture then it would have been possible.