Greatest General of the 20th Century

Martel

I've been inspired by the similiar topic in the Before 1900 Board. However, I think that we need different categories for the generals so here are the nominees and their leagues.

World War I division
Joseph Joffre
Erich Lundendorff
Ferdinand Foch
Henri Petain
Douglas Haig
John French
Mustafa Kemal
Edmund Allenby

Intra-War Division
Leon Trotsky
Chaing Kai-Shek
Ismet Innonu
Joseph Pilsudski
Iwane Matsui

World War II Division
Erwin Rommel
Dwight Eisenhower
Bernard Montgomery
George Patton
Douglas Macarthur
Heinz Guderian
Georgi Zhukov
Louis Mountbatten
Tomoyuki Yamashita

Post War Regular Division 1945-1991
Yitzhak Rabin
Douglas Macarthur (Korea only)
Norman Schwartzkopf

Irregular Division
Emilano Zapata
Pancho Villa
Mao Zedong
Fidel Castro
Yassir Arafat
Vo Nyguen Giap

I welcome any additional nominations. The requirements are (1) army only not air force or navy and (2) must have been commander for a campaign, no one-battle wonders. The time frame is the "short" twentieth century, 1914 to 1991.

Vote for one in each division.
 

robertp6165

Additional nominations for Post War Regular Division....

Moshe Dayan, chief architect of the Israeli victory in the 6-Day War
Ariel Sharon, for his brilliant campaign in the Sinai in 1973

Additional nominations for the World War II division...

Erich von Manstein
 

Othniel

What about the Balkan War Generals? The Boer War generals? Mexican Civil War generals? Chaco War Generals?
 

fhaessig

Additionnal nomination for WWII :

De Hautecloque ( aka Leclerc )

He may not be the greatest ( a matter of opinion, given what he did witrh the ressources he had ), but he should at least be in the list
 

Hashemite

Banned
World War I division
Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck

Intra-War Division
Leon Trotsky

World War II Division
Leclerc

Post War Regular Division 1945-1991
Douglas Macarthur (Korea only)

Irregular Division
Pancho Villa


For the best in the century, Lettow-Vorbeck
 

schrammy

World War I division
most certainly Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck

Intra-War Division
Leon Trotsky

World War II Division
Erwin Rommel

Post War Regular Division 1945-1991
Norman Schwartzkopf not so much because i think hes so good but for lack of better

Irregular Division
Pancho Villa
 

Martel

Othniel said:
What about the Balkan War Generals? The Boer War generals? Mexican Civil War generals? Chaco War Generals?
Click to expand...
I don't mean to sound cranky because I certainly left out some people who deserve betterm but the Boer War and the Balkan Wars are outside the time range (1914-1991, the short 20th Century). And the Mexican War is included, twice (Villa and Zapata). Admittedly Villa is arguably not an irregular and also arguably both did their most important battles before 1914, but to imply that there are none.
If you have someone in mind for the Chaco War feel free.

Robert,
Sharon is definitely a good choice, but I thought that Rabin was the actual general in charge of the Six Day War and Dayan was Defense Minister. I could be wrong on that in which case Dayan should replace Rabin.
 

Johnestauffer

This is a interesting question - should a general be viewed as 'great' based on their tactical or strategic skills?
Several entrants (Rommel for example) was a great tactician but some would say lacked the strategic overview necessary to make a total 'great commander'
I would like to add Kesselring to the WW-2 era (he was a Luftwaffe general but commanded the ground defensive battles in Italy that held up the allied advances)
Also to nitpick - Montbatten was naval
 

Bismarck

What about Erich von Manstein? He designed the plan that defeated France and the Lower Countries in only six weeks, saved Army Group A in the retreat from Stalingrad, reversed the tide of Soviet advance with the Kharkov Offensive, and help command the figthing retreat from Ukraine until Hitler fired him.

Also he pioneered the modern concept of the mobile defense, with I think is his most important contribution.
 

Susano

Banned
WW1:
Hm... Lettow-Vorbeck or Kemal.
If forced to decide, Id say LV.

Inter-War
... no clue...

WW2
Rommel, Guderian or Zhukov.
Again, forced to decide, Id say Rommel.

Irregular
Err... uhm... again no clue.
 

Othniel

Martel said:
I don't mean to sound cranky because I certainly left out some people who deserve betterm but the Boer War and the Balkan Wars are outside the time range (1914-1991, the short 20th Century). And the Mexican War is included, twice (Villa and Zapata). Admittedly Villa is arguably not an irregular and also arguably both did their most important battles before 1914, but to imply that there are none.
If you have someone in mind for the Chaco War feel free.
Click to expand...
Pershing. General Pershing, served in both World War one, and presued Villia into Mexico. Honored highly both in France and the USA.
 

Bismarck

Here's a quote from John R. Boyd's "Patterns of Conflict" to support Manstein's nomination.

"Only Manstein (and few others) knew how to synthesize and apply the experiences and ideas of Napoleon, Clausewitz, Jomini, Moltke, and Schlieffen in a strategic as well as a grand tactical sense. "

It can be found someone here on his site: http://www.d-n-i.net/second_level/boyd_military.htm
 
MrP

MrP

Banned
I'd like to replace Haig with Plumer, and just remove Joffre entirely. The man had a flawed understanding of the results of advances in weapons technology that got a lot of good French soldiers killed.

Not to be anti-Monty, but surely we Brits have someone better for WWII? Viscount Slim, perhaps? Wavell? O'Connor?

While looking around, I ran across a rather amusing joke here:

Q. How can you tell that soldiers on the Eastern Front are good friends?

A. When a soldier goes on leave, his division has to come backward 200km to meet him.
 

Bismarck

MrP said:
I'd like to replace Haig with Plumer, and just remove Joffre entirely. The man had a flawed understanding of the results of advances in weapons technology that got a lot of good French soldiers killed.

Not to be anti-Monty, but surely we Brits have someone better for WWII? Viscount Slim, perhaps? Wavell? O'Connor?

While looking around, I ran across a rather amusing joke here:

Q. How can you tell that soldiers on the Eastern Front are good friends?

A. When a soldier goes on leave, his division has to come backward 200km to meet him.
Click to expand...

Don't you mean "When a soldier goes on leave, Nazi Germany goes down him."?:D :D
 

Tom_B

WWI

Radomir Putnik really belongs on the list

For the Brits I consider Smith-Dorrien (though he could use some anger management LOL) greatly underappreciated. I also like Plumer

For the French Petain and maybe Fayolle

Ludendorff is way overrated. For the Germans I would suggest Otto von Below and Mackensen. And Lettow-Vorbeck if you consider him a general.

WWII

I would join in the chorus for Manstein and Kesselring (in his Army role. His Luftwaffe leadership was deeply flawed). I might add that Mannerheim is umderappreciated.

MacArthur is all Hype.
 

dittomitto2445

Banned
Bismarck said:
What about Erich von Manstein? He designed the plan that defeated France and the Lower Countries in only six weeks yeah but that was due to french leaders being to incompent to stop them

Macarthur was the most over rated commander the usa has ever had

Patton was the best commander for the usa he saved bastonge, saved the sicilian theatre, and he stop the french front from stopping and turning into a stalemate
Click to expand...
 

Michael B

World War I Division
Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck

Intra-War Division
?????????????

World War II Division
Erich von Manstein

Post War Regular Division 1945-1991
Colin Powell

Irregular Division
Mao Zedong
 
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