Gorings Reich (Part 2) Heartland versus Rimland

The Germans have made a mistake - the Allies now know the Germans have decided to use chemical weapons, and also will know about nerve gas very soon. Their ability/willingness to do this sort of mixed saturation attack is also exposed. The meeting of Allied leaders at such an exposed location, even before this attack, was foolish in the extreme, OTL these meetings only took place at locations that were not reachable by German forces. Unless the Germans launch a simultaneous attack on Blenheim Palace, I can't imagine that the leaders would not immediately move elsewhere and by that I mean out of the British Isles ASAP. Of course the British leaders will stay, but I expect the Royal Family and the leadership will exit London which will be an obvious target of the next nerve gas attack.

I agree that the Soviets won't give in. This sort of thing worked once, but subsequent efforts will be much more difficult, and frankly compared to the millions already dead 60,000 is not much (as Stalin once is supposed to have said: "the death of a man is a tragedy, the death of a million is a statistic"). If the Germans do manage to kill off Truman, the Joint Chiefs, the Mexican president, etc or even some of them, the response will be ugly - and if any of the Royal Family go... Operation Vegetarian can still happen, and the use of WWI agents on German cities will be nasty enough, thank you. OTL the production of atomic bombs by this point was going to be 3 a month and climbing shortly. Germany won't have nukes, let alone a way to deliver them even to the UK for at least 2 years and perhaps longer (it took the Soviets 4 years and that was with a lot of help from spies allowing them to avoid having to solve lots of engineering problems). Future dictionaries may vert well have the following entry for Germany: "a vast wasteland where no mammals live, which glows with an eerie light".

my best research has turned up one physics package (the material that is detonated) a month for the Americans, as they are essentially hand made at present. That of course gets a lot better but not for a couple of more years. I checked with a friend of mine who worked at Los Alamos for a number of years, as well as some others as well as what I could find elsewhere, so going to stick with that for now.

As to the German attack on the British... you will have to wait and see what they have planned first

also note that the attack on Moscow was part 1 of Baseplate
 
The Germans have made a mistake - the Allies now know the Germans have decided to use chemical weapons, and also will know about nerve gas very soon. Their ability/willingness to do this sort of mixed saturation attack is also exposed. The meeting of Allied leaders at such an exposed location, even before this attack, was foolish in the extreme, OTL these meetings only took place at locations that were not reachable by German forces. Unless the Germans launch a simultaneous attack on Blenheim Palace, I can't imagine that the leaders would not immediately move elsewhere and by that I mean out of the British Isles ASAP. Of course the British leaders will stay, but I expect the Royal Family and the leadership will exit London which will be an obvious target of the next nerve gas attack.

I agree that the Soviets won't give in. This sort of thing worked once, but subsequent efforts will be much more difficult, and frankly compared to the millions already dead 60,000 is not much (as Stalin once is supposed to have said: "the death of a man is a tragedy, the death of a million is a statistic"). If the Germans do manage to kill off Truman, the Joint Chiefs, the Mexican president, etc or even some of them, the response will be ugly - and if any of the Royal Family go... Operation Vegetarian can still happen, and the use of WWI agents on German cities will be nasty enough, thank you. OTL the production of atomic bombs by this point was going to be 3 a month and climbing shortly. Germany won't have nukes, let alone a way to deliver them even to the UK for at least 2 years and perhaps longer (it took the Soviets 4 years and that was with a lot of help from spies allowing them to avoid having to solve lots of engineering problems). Future dictionaries may vert well have the following entry for Germany: "a vast wasteland where no mammals live, which glows with an eerie light".

Personally I think nuclear and chemical/ biological weapons are equally hideous. Using nuclear weapons is not the more 'ethical' option.
 
Personally I think nuclear and chemical/ biological weapons are equally hideous. Using nuclear weapons is not the more 'ethical' option.

note that official US policy agrees with you... the use of any of them will provoke a US nuclear response if used against vital US interests. Calbear in his timeline goes into length about that, so I won't cover the same ground. In this timeline the Allies responded to the Japanese use of such against the Chinese with gas, and the attacks on the US with biological weapons with nuclear weapons.
 
Long Jump and Baseplate (part 2)
Kesselring has told Goring that the chances of actually catching the Allied leadership is slim, as surely the events in Moscow will give them sufficient warning and that it cannot be avoided due to the difference in time zones. Goring decides to proceed anyway, to make the point to the British at least that they will pay the price of a total war using atomic weapons and nerve gas. However Goring in the early stages of planning orders the cancellation of the planned attacks on American and Allied bomber fields with nerve gas, as his diplomats have warned him, and his General Staff agrees, that the use of chemical weapons on British soil will cause the British to certainly reply in kind, instead of only possibly retaliating for the use of such on the Soviets.

Better to let the Allies know that the Reich can expand the war to the similar horrifying levels that the Allies can and hope that perhaps negotiations on the basis that avoiding mutual catastrophe is better than not is worthwhile. After all, the Soviets are who started the war and if the Allies are offered sufficient concessions along with the knowledge that the Reich can inflict massive damage of its own than maybe a peace acceptable to the Reich and its allies can be achieved. It is a slim reed, but all Goring has now. Long Jump is planned and finalized on that basis.


X-Day (begins 2 hours after events in Moscow due to the difference in time zones)
Much like Baseplate, the initial attack is by a large wave of Buzz Bombs. This wave is much larger however, a dozens of truck launched Buzz Bombs are launched from the Calais area, while 321 medium bombers launch their birds over the North Sea just as dawn breaks. Meanwhile, a large American air task force of B24s is taking off from bases in Anglia, while RAF and RCAF crews are heading to bed after a busy night of bombing transportation targets in the Reich.

As British radar screens begin to show the massive inbound raid and orders are being sent alerting the flak guns and the interceptor squadrons, the next German phase begins. Several squadrons of Do335A6 fighters, a total of 60 in all, which have been stripped of their armor and most of their weaponry and equipped with window dispensers and broadcast jammers, pop up from tree top height just as they clear the French and Dutch coasts and follow behind the Doodlebugs and they cause havoc on the British air defense warning system. However, the British are far better prepared for such a thing than the Soviets were, and fighters are ordered to attack visually and concentrate on the primary approaches to London.

The Air Battle of Piccadilly Circus
Although far better known for its London fame, the term has been used by American heavy bomber crews as the rendezvous and assembly point for the bomber forces of the 20th Air Force before they head toward targets in the Reich. This morning, nearly 500 Liberators are assembling before heading toward their target which is today going to be Berlin. A large force of Mustangs and Thunderbolts will cover the strike force which is going to be the first phase of a several day strike by the US 20th Air Force, the Allied 8th Air Force and the Anglo-Canadian Bomber Command to impress upon the Germans that their capital is vulnerable to the Allied Bomber Offensive.

On a collision course with this force is the third phase of the German assault, which has the mission of attacking Bomber Command and 20th Air Force bases in Anglia. This force consists of 300 He277s which are flying at low altitude to avoid Allied radar. It is below and well behind the Buzz Bomb strike, and with jamming, it and the 600 Fw190s and 120 Me262s flying cover ahead and above the bombers are hidden. General Peltz, the commander of the strike force, orders 400 of his fighters to attack the enemy and cause confusion, and with luck, suck in more of the Allied fighters. His gambit pays off, and as American bombers are still forming up, and their fighter cover is still relatively weak, the German fighters attack. In a wild battle, which sees 332 American fighters join in the fray, and scores of aircraft on both sides fall into the sea, while hundreds limp away with varying degrees of damage or having exhausted their ammunition. The American raid is completely disrupted and the surviving American bomber commanders order an orbit. In all 80 B24s, 120 Allied fighters, and 220 German fighters are lost or rendered damaged beyond repair but for the Germans the battle is a major victory as it disrupts an Allied attack, sucks in reserves that had not already been committed to dealing with the first phase of the German assault and clears the way for the German bombers.

Raid on Blenheim
The German special operations element of the attack meanwhile is underway. A force of 69 Ar234s (after aborts) streaks across the North Sea from their advance bases in Holland. Escorting them are 71 Me262s and they cross the British coast a few minutes behind the leading wave of Doodlebugs from the North Sea. While Allied fighters are dealing with the Buzz Bombs, few notice the German strike force streaking behind them and the radar jamming hides them from the air defense radars and thus fighter direction.

However, the Allies have their own surprise. Operation Doublecross has been effect every since the capture of the German Ultra machine in Ankara, and by August practically all of the German intelligence agents in the British Isles have been turned. Between interrogations of them, instructions sent to them by Berlin, and their own signals intelligence the Allies have figured out the the American Diplomatic code has been broken, and the planned meeting of the Allied leadership is actually occurring in Dublin on this very day. Blenheim Palace has been made an elaborate flak trap, while several squadrons of British jet fighters are scrambled when it becomes clear that a mass attack is under way probably as cover for the attack on the little town of Woodstock, Oxfordshire.

The German strike arrives on time and on target and into a blistering ambush of flak, but in spite of staggering losses, over half the bombers, they still manage to wreck most of the what was once the greatest of English Country Houses. However, they are jumped along with their fighter escorts as they attempt to egress by British Meteors, and only 3 of the bombers and 10 of the escorting fighters ultimately return home. A British press release later that day reports the attack but also reports that the deep shelters and a hurried evacuation prevented any significant casualties and the Allied meeting continues as planned.

The attack on London
Allied flak and fighters shoot down most of the Doodlebugs but still 49 hit the London area and kill dozens of people and injure hundreds more. However, minutes after the last Buzz Bomb has been destroyed or reached its target, the Germans launch the second element. A total of 24 A8 missiles are launched from a wooded area near Sedan, France, while another 60 of the A4 missiles are launched from truck mounted launchers near Calais. Half have high explosive warheads but the other have payloads of tear gas. A total of 21 of the A8 and 46 of the A4s hit London, and the missiles loaded with tear gas detonate using the new German proximity type fuse to deliver their bomblets that explode of the streets of London, splashing tear gas in a fine aerosol over several neighborhoods and creating considerable panic before calm is restored once it becomes clear what the gas actually is.

This demonstration of capability has a very sobering effect when the report reaches the Allied leadership in Dublin.

The Air Assault on East Anglia
The German heavy bombers have 49 American, Canadian and British airfields as their targets, the homes of B24, RB29, Lincoln and Lancaster bomber groups, where nearly 125,000 air and ground crews make their home. While heavily defended by flak, they are not nearly as well defended as the City of London for example, and as there have been only a handful of nuisance attacks in the war to date against them, most of the flak crews are relatively lax while most personnel have never experienced a serious air raid threat. The German bombers, now numbering 274 bombers after more aborts and several crashes, is coming in low and divided into 49 strike forces of 6 aircraft each loaded with cluster bombs, while escorted by 4 fighter each. The mission is to hit maintenance areas, hangers, and living quarters and they are to ignore the aircraft, which will be well dispersed and many will be in revetments. The objective is to damage the Allied Bomber Forces ability to maintain itself but more importantly to make a point, as each bomber also carries several bombs filled with tear gas.

The Germans strike comes with little warning, in some cases only a few minutes, just enough time for many personnel to still be milling about from sleep (at the RCAF and RAF bases) or drop what they were doing and try and process the idea that an attack is coming. At the American bases, most of the aircraft are already in the air carrying out their missions of the day (indeed many are fighting for their lives at Piccadilly Circus not too many minutes before) and ground staff equally caught off guard. Most however dive into air raid shelters and trenches or into ditches or any other available cover as the German bombers sweep overhead. The damage inflicted is mostly minor, although the gas bombs create many scares, but at Great Ashfield, home of the 95th Bomb Group, several cluster bomb strikes catch several hundred men as they are dashing for shelter, while at Earls Colne, bomblets walk across a housing area of British Lancaster crews still trying to get out of their beds. In spite of these local disasters only 4,000 casualties are inflicted in all and Allied flak and fighters manage to down a third of the German attack force either over the target or in the flight home.

However a report generated after the strike points out that if the Germans had used nerve gas casualties might have been as high as 50% of the personnel in the target zones and while disastrously expensive, the Germans make their point.


By the end of the day the German aircraft have landed at their forward bases, refueled and those that are airworthy are flying further east to their home fields in Poland and East Prussia or dispersing to their air defense bases in the Reich itself.

At great cost the Luftwaffe has struck back and made the point that if had meant to, it could have dealt a severe blow indeed. The air raid scheduled against Berlin by Bomber Command is postponed as well.

That same day a peace proposal is submitted to the United Nations and the Western Allies specifically through Switzerland and Argentina

 
Goering's ability to listen to reason has spared Germany from total destruction. You can bet the Allies will be working overtime to come up with nerve gas defenses and both military and civilians will very soon consider being without their gas mask as unthinkable as walking around naked. The problem facing the Allies is not so much coming to some sort of armistice, depending upon what the Germans offer, but the knowledge that in a few years the Germans will have nukes and you'll see a stalemate and an acceptance of the status quo for the indefinite future.
 
So Germany submitted a peace proposal to the Allies?

Goring is trying to save what he can at this point, he sees the writing on the wall and so does the General Staff.... a peace now still gives him a victory (in terms of domestic politics in Germany) and he has some territory he can trade (France for starters, some ground in the East too)
 
How do the germans still have functional airbases anywhere near Calais and Holland? My understanding was the West had achieved air supremacy over France.

they had air superiority... it is really hard to permanently knock out an airbase (although carpet bombing will do it). The Allies had a significant portion of their air power involved in southern France and Italy, had grown somewhat cavalier about following up after most of the Luftwaffe pulled back to Germany, and were concentrating on other targets. Thus the Germans rebuilt their airfields and used them as temporary staging bases of short duration. Note that in preparing for the attack the Germans shifted some ground personnel and spares forward, as well as fuel, and used the bases in France to stage from. After the attack the surviving aircraft were pulled back to Germany as planned.

But you can bet that those bases are going to get a good working over now. Also the head of the British ADC command is going to be sacked as well as some other heads rolling.

Think of this as the aerial version of the Ardennes offensive ... the Allies just didn't think the Germans had the means and thus got a nasty shock
 

Ryan

Donor
The thing is though, by proving that they have the capability to gas England they've (to some extent) removed their capability to perform such an attack against due to the losses they've suffered, the increased defenses that will be built up in England and the fact that the allies will be looking out to make sure the Germans can't set up another forward airbase to build up in and attack from.
 
The thing is though, by proving that they have the capability to gas England they've (to some extent) removed their capability to perform such an attack against due to the losses they've suffered, the increased defenses that will be built up in England and the fact that the allies will be looking out to make sure the Germans can't set up another forward airbase to build up in and attack from.

I didn't say it was a perfect plan.... and on a more serious note you are indeed right about that. Although hitting mobile missile launchers, as we know from the 1st Gulf War is a lot harder than it looks.

There is a growing sense of desperation in the Reich as things continue to not go well and there is the now certain knowledge that the Americans at least have nuclear weapons (which were thought to be years away at the least).
 

Ryan

Donor
What conditions are each side willing to accept for peace?

And what are current borders like, similar to otl 1944?
 
I do not think the Allies would accept, they do not need to use nuclear weapons.

They just need to go in the conventional way and demand unconditional surrender. And of course there will be a lot of blood, a lot of it paid by Soviet Union.

Goring cannot use the bio/ chem weapons as they may get nuked. And I think bio/chem are not strong enough to be nuclear deterrent. And under such pressure, Goring can only surrender or face total destruction.

Things may be easier if they try to destroy SU totally before the Americans finish off Japan and come back on the Nazis but maybe it's impossible.
 
I do not think the Allies would accept, they do not need to use nuclear weapons.

They just need to go in the conventional way and demand unconditional surrender. And of course there will be a lot of blood, a lot of it paid by Soviet Union.

Goring cannot use the bio/ chem weapons as they may get nuked. And I think bio/chem are not strong enough to be nuclear deterrent. And under such pressure, Goring can only surrender or face total destruction.

Things may be easier if they try to destroy SU totally before the Americans finish off Japan and come back on the Nazis but maybe it's impossible.

one thing to consider... war weariness... the British and Americans have been at it for over 4 years now (including fighting the Japanese too). The Germans and Soviets each had the truce and armistice (although less so for the Soviets)

just keep in mind that I only posted one day .... more is coming
 
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