More or less. Downfall has been shelved indefinitely, but the LeMay has been given a free hand to make the devil blush, so you're pretty spot on.
Getting Ahead of Ourselves: A B-29 TL
- Thread starter Parmenion
- Start date
Didn't you also just give LeMay rabies?
I think the japanese extinction event has been postponed a bit. Question is once the US has made it clear what it thinks of biological warfare is there anything Japan can do to prevent it?
I think the japanese extinction event has been postponed a bit. Question is once the US has made it clear what it thinks of biological warfare is there anything Japan can do to prevent it?
Of course, the US could always borrow a bit of Operation Vegetarian tech from the UK.
With Okinawa quarantined, is there anywhere in range the Allies can be based to strike Japan? Is Little Boy small and light enough to fit underneath something that could be carrier based?
Thinking perhaps the Boeing XF8 or possibly a Sea Hornet (Eagle engined Wyvern is probably too late). All carrier capable and were at the pinnacle of piston engined performance and technology.
Thinking perhaps the Boeing XF8 or possibly a Sea Hornet (Eagle engined Wyvern is probably too late). All carrier capable and were at the pinnacle of piston engined performance and technology.
Simple answer , no. Little Boy was about 10,000lb, far more than anything could carry.
Yeah, we lost more B-29 Superfortresses to engine fires and engine failure because the R--3350 was such a POS before Wright managed to fix it for the Lockheed Constellation and DC-7, that the moment that the R-4360 Wasp Major was ready, we redesigned the B-29 for the R-4360, called it the B-50 Superfortress. The damn thing was fifty miles per hour faster than a Wright Cyclone-equipped B-29.
Yeah ITTL the fact that the superfort is ready a year early ironically means more early teething problems. About 53% of the bombers destroyed are because of that (I pulled this number out my ass)
Hopefully the USA doesn't roll a -2 on trying to drop a nuke on Japan, by having the B-29 carrying the device suffer an engine fire and fall out of the sky.
It's a plot point in Clive Cussler's Dragon, with a Silver plate attacker whilst enroute to a target with a third nuke shot down.
Part 93- Pincer
On August 8th, the first phase of Operation Zama went into motion. While the Canadian forces finally conceded Lübeck, setting up a new defensive line with Danish reinforcements to the West, other units were planning an advance. Before any ground attacks could be made however, the offensive began in the air. The first sorties began just after midnight, as the first of what would amount to nearly 6,000 aircraft started to pound the BT lines. Notably, this also included the first large scale offensive use of jet aircraft, as nearly 800 Meteors, P-80s and Me-262s participated.
General Patton's 3rd Army would spearhead the assault, with the Anglo-Polish units to his North perfroming minor attacks to draw away enemy forces. His army had recieved 15 additional divisions to support the attack, including four newly raised divisions from the United States. These were a part of Secretary Stimsons plan to raise 30 more divisions for the war effort, and were among the 12 all black divisions that had been formed. These four in particular were formed from smaller units that had been dispersed throughout the country in training or administrative roles, and so while lacking combat experience, were well trained.
Marshal Zhukov had noticed the buildup of American forces near Jena, and was in the process of constructing several defensive lines between the front and Leipzig. He also cancelled the attacks on Jena, and moved back his forces there to a more defensible line a few hundred yards behind the Saale, which would prove to be a fatal mistake. While the line had a commanding view of the city, it was also distant enough that TAAT aircraft could bomb it without fear of friendly fire.
Patton had given his air support simple intructions that night "Pick a division, and make it disappear." Said division ended up being the Northernmost non-Soviet unit, the Czechoslovakian 1st guards motorized division. Having been lavishly equipped with modern equipment, as a sort of reward for the Czech governments loyalty, the unit was indistinguishable from the Soviet forces surrounding it. The morning of the 8th saw them hammered by 700 aircraft, which unleashed nearly 1,000 tons of napalm onto the horrified soldiers below. The Czechs soon routed, and the American attack commenced.
The spearpoint of the attack, the 114th infantry division, had copied a tactic from the Soviet playbook, and equipped themselves almost completely with automatic weapons. Any apprehension Patton had about these soldiers died away immediately as the Soviet main line, intended to hold for six days, was overrun in less than four hours. The M4 "Firehose", which had gained fame smoking out the Japanese beneath Okinawa, were now brought against the Soviets. Men in the trenches would sometimes find themselves ankle deep in napalm, moments before being incinerated by the flames.
While the cighting to the North was less intense, it also saw the first large scale use of the Centurion tank. While still considered a cruiser tank at the time, it was later considered the first main battle tank, having the armor and firepower of a heavy tank, the speed of a light tank, all fitting onto a chassis the size of a medium tank. While the tank was supposed to be armed with a 17 pounder gun, many were hastily converted to support a redesigned 25 pounder while a proper replacement was designed. This enabled the tank to fight and destroy almost any Soviet vehicle, only the largest tank destroyers posing a threat.
Overall the offensive showed the BT had lost its initiative on the German front, and had burned most of its reserves to advance only a handful of kilometers in most areas. While Stalin wasn't overly concerned about these developments, Zhukov was more cognizant of the danger posed, which would lead him to take drastic measures to rectify the situation...
General Patton's 3rd Army would spearhead the assault, with the Anglo-Polish units to his North perfroming minor attacks to draw away enemy forces. His army had recieved 15 additional divisions to support the attack, including four newly raised divisions from the United States. These were a part of Secretary Stimsons plan to raise 30 more divisions for the war effort, and were among the 12 all black divisions that had been formed. These four in particular were formed from smaller units that had been dispersed throughout the country in training or administrative roles, and so while lacking combat experience, were well trained.
Marshal Zhukov had noticed the buildup of American forces near Jena, and was in the process of constructing several defensive lines between the front and Leipzig. He also cancelled the attacks on Jena, and moved back his forces there to a more defensible line a few hundred yards behind the Saale, which would prove to be a fatal mistake. While the line had a commanding view of the city, it was also distant enough that TAAT aircraft could bomb it without fear of friendly fire.
Patton had given his air support simple intructions that night "Pick a division, and make it disappear." Said division ended up being the Northernmost non-Soviet unit, the Czechoslovakian 1st guards motorized division. Having been lavishly equipped with modern equipment, as a sort of reward for the Czech governments loyalty, the unit was indistinguishable from the Soviet forces surrounding it. The morning of the 8th saw them hammered by 700 aircraft, which unleashed nearly 1,000 tons of napalm onto the horrified soldiers below. The Czechs soon routed, and the American attack commenced.
The spearpoint of the attack, the 114th infantry division, had copied a tactic from the Soviet playbook, and equipped themselves almost completely with automatic weapons. Any apprehension Patton had about these soldiers died away immediately as the Soviet main line, intended to hold for six days, was overrun in less than four hours. The M4 "Firehose", which had gained fame smoking out the Japanese beneath Okinawa, were now brought against the Soviets. Men in the trenches would sometimes find themselves ankle deep in napalm, moments before being incinerated by the flames.
While the cighting to the North was less intense, it also saw the first large scale use of the Centurion tank. While still considered a cruiser tank at the time, it was later considered the first main battle tank, having the armor and firepower of a heavy tank, the speed of a light tank, all fitting onto a chassis the size of a medium tank. While the tank was supposed to be armed with a 17 pounder gun, many were hastily converted to support a redesigned 25 pounder while a proper replacement was designed. This enabled the tank to fight and destroy almost any Soviet vehicle, only the largest tank destroyers posing a threat.
Overall the offensive showed the BT had lost its initiative on the German front, and had burned most of its reserves to advance only a handful of kilometers in most areas. While Stalin wasn't overly concerned about these developments, Zhukov was more cognizant of the danger posed, which would lead him to take drastic measures to rectify the situation...
No kidding there. The Russian army as I recall, enjoyed a high degree of motorization, and with Baku nuked, that should be grinding to a halt, along with supplies of weapons and fuel....
The 17lb gun was the best allied option at the time, a 25lb gun was a gun howitzer which could at certain ranges deal with for example a Pz IVF but that was likely to be near 500yds. I doubt it would even scratch an IS-2 or 3.
The 20lb gun was a late addition to the fleet with only being available in 1948 onwards.
The American 90mm may be a suitable replacement for the 17lb gun.
The 20lb gun was a late addition to the fleet with only being available in 1948 onwards.
The American 90mm may be a suitable replacement for the 17lb gun.
Errolwi
Monthly Donor
But the medium velocity 25-pdr is worse than the high-velocity 17-pdr at attacking armoured targets, there is no point.
Not exactly, a 25-pound High-Explosive round will do extremely unpleasant things such as the crew....
So it looks like the US, in a moment of clarity/sanity, is properly utilizing it’s resourcing, both human and material, by allowing people of slightly different skin pigmentation to fight, and by forming their myriad independent regiments/brigades all over the place into combat divisions. Is this approximately correct?
Basically. Morganthau wants to integrate the army, and while that's obviously hard to do in the middle of a war, he's still making moves wherever he can to blend things, such as having individual replacements be of any race, or attaching black units to larger, previously all white formations.
Part 94-This is War
On the 21st of August, 1945, the newly shaken down aircraft carrier USS Midway arrived at Saipan, where tye hospitals were by now overcrowded with nearly 3,000 soldiers, many of them thrashing as they were tied to their beds. A cargo of utmost secracy was quietly brought ashore, though by now the contents were an open secret. The cargo was assembled, and packed about the B-29 Superfortress named Enola Gay, her crew having been among many who'd been training for months for the mission. Orders were issued, and to many it simply seemed like a devastating raid on the Tokyo metro, LeMay himself summed up the mission "You will make a region of Japan cease to exist."
Still, whispers of what was really happening had travelled fast, and as such every pilot and crewman was ready to be a part, even though for many their fevers indicated it would be their last. The planes rolled off the fields at Saipan and Tinian, and the massive formation moved North. Japanese holdouts on Rota spotted the formation as was typical, and passed the report along, which reached HQ an hour later. Aircraft were put on alert, but most officers were not too alarmed. However a few hours later, the Japanese received clarification.
Over the past months, cargo submarines and the rare flying boat had delivered materials for the construction of a large passive radar and radio listening post on Chichijima. This post had been able to pick of the radio chatter, and was able to send a relatively accurate estimation of its size (They reported 940 bombers) This, along with another report of fighters taking off from Iwo Jima, and that both formations were headed towards Tokyo, sent the command into panic. Fearing the imperial shelter would not be enough, The Emperor and his family were hastily shoved into seperate cars, and hurried out of the city.
The Tokyo fighter defense had been gutted by the recent attacks on the Marianas, and now totaled just 300 aircraft, barely half of them modern. The AAA defenses were more robust, and included 300 artillery pieces capable of reaching high altitude. The defensive doctrine for the area was simple, make any large scale raid too costly to attempt, a doctrine that would be stressed on this night. Many of the gunners were part of the volunteer corps, children as young as nine and old men had been fated to fend off the hordes of American bombers.
General LeMay had spent weeks working out every aspect of the plan. The raid would begin at 2000, he hoped that the cooking fires of many homes would add to the destruction. The first wave would be at high altitide, and would essentially light the way by starting the first fires for the rest to flock too. The general himself was aboard one of the bombers, observing the realization of his planning. He figured tonight would be the night the war ended, what nation could experience this and continue fighting?
The first wave of 200 bombers arrived, and as expected, faced the most opposition. Ki-100s and heavy fighters below them charged, as the bombers struggled to reach their targets. While the first wave suffered 28% losses, more than any other part of the attack, they managed to start the first fires. A little more than an hour later, the rest of the wave arrived, and split up to hit their targets. Escorted by P-51s, many bombers flew at low altitude to improve accuracy. While Tokyo proper was facing the lions share of the attack, Yokohama, Yokosuka, Chiba and other surrounding cities were also targeted.
Enola Gay was surrounded by 16 unmodified bombers, whose primary purpose was to protect their escort at all costs. They came under light anti air attack, but the growing fires below had already forced many gunners to abandon their pieces. It's possible a few Japanese radar operators noticed a hole beginning to form over the center of Tokyo, as bombers began to head away from the area. Whatever the case, at 2114 the Enola Gay released it's payload, and less than a minute later, Tokyo vanished.
The massive airburst flattened many of the modern masonary buildings in Central Tokyo, as the heat vaporized thousands, not to mention knocking 30 Japanese planes out of the sky. The flash added to the many fires already burning, and as many Japanese houses were of wood and paper construction, they rapidly burnt out of control. The bombing didn't let up for nearly an hour, as more targets were hit. The fires in surrounding cities also prevented many firefighters there from assisting Tokyo, though this would soon prove moot.
Despite the calm winds, a firestorm soon developed. Flaming winds ripped houses apart, and pulled people down the streets. Those in shelters either burned or suffocated, as the fire sucked away their oxygen. Tornadoes of flame developed, as the hot updrafts made some bombers climb as much as a mile, while filling their cockpits with the smells of cooked human flesh. In one horrifying coincidence, a single bomber picked up a local Japanese radio channel, and found themsleves listening to Tokyo Rose burning to death.
The raid was finished by 2300, though a few aircraft stayed past midnight to take photos and hit specific targets. The fires of Greater Tokyo would burn for another three days, leaving 80% of the survivors homeless. While The Emperor and his wife survived unharmed, the car carrying crown prince Akihito was caught up in traffic and burnt out. This particular news would reach the Americans in the Marianas a few days later, to the celebration of many. Tokyo for all intents and purposes, no longer existed as anything more than ashes and rubble. After the bombers returned to their airfields, 15 airmen, all of them surffering from early rabies symptoms, shot themselves. They'd done their job
Still, whispers of what was really happening had travelled fast, and as such every pilot and crewman was ready to be a part, even though for many their fevers indicated it would be their last. The planes rolled off the fields at Saipan and Tinian, and the massive formation moved North. Japanese holdouts on Rota spotted the formation as was typical, and passed the report along, which reached HQ an hour later. Aircraft were put on alert, but most officers were not too alarmed. However a few hours later, the Japanese received clarification.
Over the past months, cargo submarines and the rare flying boat had delivered materials for the construction of a large passive radar and radio listening post on Chichijima. This post had been able to pick of the radio chatter, and was able to send a relatively accurate estimation of its size (They reported 940 bombers) This, along with another report of fighters taking off from Iwo Jima, and that both formations were headed towards Tokyo, sent the command into panic. Fearing the imperial shelter would not be enough, The Emperor and his family were hastily shoved into seperate cars, and hurried out of the city.
The Tokyo fighter defense had been gutted by the recent attacks on the Marianas, and now totaled just 300 aircraft, barely half of them modern. The AAA defenses were more robust, and included 300 artillery pieces capable of reaching high altitude. The defensive doctrine for the area was simple, make any large scale raid too costly to attempt, a doctrine that would be stressed on this night. Many of the gunners were part of the volunteer corps, children as young as nine and old men had been fated to fend off the hordes of American bombers.
General LeMay had spent weeks working out every aspect of the plan. The raid would begin at 2000, he hoped that the cooking fires of many homes would add to the destruction. The first wave would be at high altitide, and would essentially light the way by starting the first fires for the rest to flock too. The general himself was aboard one of the bombers, observing the realization of his planning. He figured tonight would be the night the war ended, what nation could experience this and continue fighting?
The first wave of 200 bombers arrived, and as expected, faced the most opposition. Ki-100s and heavy fighters below them charged, as the bombers struggled to reach their targets. While the first wave suffered 28% losses, more than any other part of the attack, they managed to start the first fires. A little more than an hour later, the rest of the wave arrived, and split up to hit their targets. Escorted by P-51s, many bombers flew at low altitude to improve accuracy. While Tokyo proper was facing the lions share of the attack, Yokohama, Yokosuka, Chiba and other surrounding cities were also targeted.
Enola Gay was surrounded by 16 unmodified bombers, whose primary purpose was to protect their escort at all costs. They came under light anti air attack, but the growing fires below had already forced many gunners to abandon their pieces. It's possible a few Japanese radar operators noticed a hole beginning to form over the center of Tokyo, as bombers began to head away from the area. Whatever the case, at 2114 the Enola Gay released it's payload, and less than a minute later, Tokyo vanished.
The massive airburst flattened many of the modern masonary buildings in Central Tokyo, as the heat vaporized thousands, not to mention knocking 30 Japanese planes out of the sky. The flash added to the many fires already burning, and as many Japanese houses were of wood and paper construction, they rapidly burnt out of control. The bombing didn't let up for nearly an hour, as more targets were hit. The fires in surrounding cities also prevented many firefighters there from assisting Tokyo, though this would soon prove moot.
Despite the calm winds, a firestorm soon developed. Flaming winds ripped houses apart, and pulled people down the streets. Those in shelters either burned or suffocated, as the fire sucked away their oxygen. Tornadoes of flame developed, as the hot updrafts made some bombers climb as much as a mile, while filling their cockpits with the smells of cooked human flesh. In one horrifying coincidence, a single bomber picked up a local Japanese radio channel, and found themsleves listening to Tokyo Rose burning to death.
The raid was finished by 2300, though a few aircraft stayed past midnight to take photos and hit specific targets. The fires of Greater Tokyo would burn for another three days, leaving 80% of the survivors homeless. While The Emperor and his wife survived unharmed, the car carrying crown prince Akihito was caught up in traffic and burnt out. This particular news would reach the Americans in the Marianas a few days later, to the celebration of many. Tokyo for all intents and purposes, no longer existed as anything more than ashes and rubble. After the bombers returned to their airfields, 15 airmen, all of them surffering from early rabies symptoms, shot themselves. They'd done their job
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Ah, well, hell has awoken. The Japanese might think their special weapons will yet break the Americans will to fight but the ugly truth is, that between the effect of special weapons and the Japanese not waving the whit flag at once the Americans will escalate.
The losses inflicted by the ongoing biological attack will necessiate a pause, yes, but that will only be a false hope for Japan. Escalation will require several devices anyways, which need to be build and shipped over the next several months.
About the only way Japan can survive in any shape is an unconditional surrender and a America committed to dealing with something else. If the Soviets continue to persist America might be willing to entertain something that leaves a semi-recognizable Japan but after biologicals I wouldn't bet on it.
The losses inflicted by the ongoing biological attack will necessiate a pause, yes, but that will only be a false hope for Japan. Escalation will require several devices anyways, which need to be build and shipped over the next several months.
About the only way Japan can survive in any shape is an unconditional surrender and a America committed to dealing with something else. If the Soviets continue to persist America might be willing to entertain something that leaves a semi-recognizable Japan but after biologicals I wouldn't bet on it.