Geronimo : What if Osama Bin Laden was killed prior to 9/11?
- Thread starter Iwanh
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Spent a week reading through this TL and I have to say this was expertly done. It feels so familiar and alien at the same time. Growing up as a teenager in this era makes me think how I would have felt during this time...and what would have changed or stayed the same. A few of my own thoughts.
I still think America is going to have to confront a very real possibility of a major terrorist attack some time in this TL. There have been a few close calls and obviously with Russia's 9/4 we can see what can be done with planes as well as the attack in Egypt. But the problem is most Americans will most likely think "That happened over there". The shocking thing about 9/11 was not just that planes crashed into buildings but in that it happened to the world's only superpower and the "winner" of the Cold War. That America seemed utterly defenseless in a way not seen since Pearl Harbor. If it could happen to America it could happen anywhere
But thats not the case here. Many could make the arguement that Russia isn't the Soviet Union anymore, they are struggling to put down an armed rebellion. Of course they missed this. They aren't a Super Power anymore. They are weak. So yes, we'll take some extra precautions, we'll keep an eye out but that could never happen here. We won the Cold War. Sure Wolverine failed, we've been hit outside of America. But again that was Over There, Not Here. Not at Home. No one could attack us at Home because we'd stop them. Because we are America.
That's the mindset most Americans would still be in. I don't think any attack would be exactly like 9/11. Even without the TSA, the 9/4 attacks would make hijacking a plane difficult. You'd probably still get reinforced cabin doors and NY has shown extra screening and etc.(though one could argue some of these measures would take years to get going rather than all at once like in OTL). But we wouldn't have anything like the TSA. If anything the way I view it like when an attack happens in Europe and American response. An increase in law enforcement visibility that slowly fades away after people calm down.
But still I think a plane would be difficult and ITTL I don't think the perfect storm that led to 9/11 exists to happen will be around here.
The more likely attack to happen would either be something similar to the 2010 attempted Time Square Bombing like in OTL or like the 2015 Paris attacks. It's just some musings on my part, not expecting such a thing to happen ITTL. I do want to ask what is the relationship between the FBI and CIA now? I know their failures with 9/11 forced the creation of the DHS and for them to work together rather than in competition.
I still think America is going to have to confront a very real possibility of a major terrorist attack some time in this TL. There have been a few close calls and obviously with Russia's 9/4 we can see what can be done with planes as well as the attack in Egypt. But the problem is most Americans will most likely think "That happened over there". The shocking thing about 9/11 was not just that planes crashed into buildings but in that it happened to the world's only superpower and the "winner" of the Cold War. That America seemed utterly defenseless in a way not seen since Pearl Harbor. If it could happen to America it could happen anywhere
But thats not the case here. Many could make the arguement that Russia isn't the Soviet Union anymore, they are struggling to put down an armed rebellion. Of course they missed this. They aren't a Super Power anymore. They are weak. So yes, we'll take some extra precautions, we'll keep an eye out but that could never happen here. We won the Cold War. Sure Wolverine failed, we've been hit outside of America. But again that was Over There, Not Here. Not at Home. No one could attack us at Home because we'd stop them. Because we are America.
That's the mindset most Americans would still be in. I don't think any attack would be exactly like 9/11. Even without the TSA, the 9/4 attacks would make hijacking a plane difficult. You'd probably still get reinforced cabin doors and NY has shown extra screening and etc.(though one could argue some of these measures would take years to get going rather than all at once like in OTL). But we wouldn't have anything like the TSA. If anything the way I view it like when an attack happens in Europe and American response. An increase in law enforcement visibility that slowly fades away after people calm down.
But still I think a plane would be difficult and ITTL I don't think the perfect storm that led to 9/11 exists to happen will be around here.
The more likely attack to happen would either be something similar to the 2010 attempted Time Square Bombing like in OTL or like the 2015 Paris attacks. It's just some musings on my part, not expecting such a thing to happen ITTL. I do want to ask what is the relationship between the FBI and CIA now? I know their failures with 9/11 forced the creation of the DHS and for them to work together rather than in competition.
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I guess The Cartoon Jihad takes the place of OTL's Cartoon Wars Parts 1 & 2, right? Surprisingly back in OTL when the episode Super Best Friends first aired back in 2001 and featured Muhammad (his first appearance on the show), it caused little to no controversy. It was only when the Cartoon Wars two-parter aired that Super Best Friends got pulled from Comedy Central and syndication.
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Hmm, now that you mention it, you do have a good point there dude. While killing Osama Bin Laden might have stopped 9/11, it hasn't stopped terrorism. With terrorist attacks still happening in the Middle East and in Russia, they might eventually happen in Europe and the US later on in the timeline. I'm trying not to temp fate, I'm just saying.
I hope not...... I think TTL America would have vigilance that they might be the next target, despite their precautions won't reach the levels in OTL
I think ITTL we are almost guaranteed to have a deadly attack in Europe. Ironically because of what just happened in the Middle East, the stage is set for a much earlier Arab Spring and a much earlier Refugee Crisis, especially from Iraq. Then you have Sudan which could also cause an influx of people looking to escape if the country disterngrates. Because of this, you may end up getting push back from Europe similar to OTL(though lacking a hard far right element...for now atleast). That push back causes tensions to rise, which groups like AQ can take advantage of and launch attacks. Again, most likely not planes(though I would again argue that Europe's airport security is most likely not at the level that it is in OTL). Again I see more lower scale attacks like shootings or bombings.
This chance becomes increased if things get worse right before or during 2008 Recession.
Oh they would be vigilant but not at the level as we are in OTL. And that vigilance probably waxes and wanes rather than being at a set level of alertness like OTL. And even then we still miss stuff. I mentioned the failed 2010 Times Square Bombing but think about the 2013 Boston Bombings. Infact, if this TL reaches 2013 it be interesting to see if the Boston Bombings are still enacted and if they are this TL's version of America's 9/11.
I agree with this post, even as someone who can't remember the 2000s, this feels real, like it feels like I'm just reading the headlines, it isn't a utopia, it isn't a dystopia, it feels like it's just a normal world
Interesting thought about the Boston Bombings, because the brothers were Chechen right? I can't exactly remember what events have transpired in this story so far, but after Al-Qaeda split between those focusing domestically and those focusing abroad, I don't believe the group that chose to focus abroad really accomplished anything on a scale of 9/11. Although I cannot remember the catalyst of Russia's 9/4 and if they had been supported by that group (If I remember right there was a motive of retribution by the Chechen actors for what Russia had done to them) ? But I think with or without the foreign-focused group's support, the fact the Boston Bombings brothers were Chechen would probably play a hand in making their actions still likely to happen.
But otherwise from that, and this might be my memory of the timeline failing me, but I really do not think that there's been as wide a push for foreign targetting in this timeline as opposed to OTL, because there hasn't been as deeply an established a group pushing for it ITTL.
But yeah, I think ITTL, an airborne plot like 9/11 and in-time-line 9/4 would be highly unlikely. However, I could see if they wanted to continue the use of vehicles as weapons, they could adopt early the use of trucks like Nice and Berlin in OTL, perhaps even coordinated.
I was only a kid during 9/11 and in the 2000s, my world was mostly Cartoon Network, Nickelodeon, GBA, PS2, and PSPs.
Of course, the U.S. in TTL will have to know they are next. Islamic extremist terror attacks already occurred here including the 1993 WTC attack, the unfolding of the Bojinka plot, and the Khobar Towers (all before the POD). If Russia got hit, of course, the U.S. and their allies West might be next.
Even in today, Americans have the feeling of "That happened over there" judging by how split they are in the middle whether to intervene in Syria in 2013 or to send weapons to Ukraine. Most Americans ITTL will probably be more focused on domestic issues while the government would dig up intelligence on possible extremists that have slipped the net.
This is the legit argument. Russian nationalists have been nostalgic over their past, whether Imperial Russia or the Soviet Union. The Russian Federation in the 2000s was a shell of its former self. It was still dealing with the effects of the turbulent 90s. It's military was not in the top shape. If OTL 2022-2023 showed how bad the Russian military is, it's no doubt to be even worse in the 2000s. The 2008 invasion of Georgia exposed that the military had communications and logistics problems as it still used the Soviet or 90s doctrine.
Americans here would just say, "Let them sort their own problems."
So there is no TSA or DHS. But airport security would still be increased following 9/4. Or even places of public transport or public gatherings.
Definitely a decrease in vigiliantism. It's hard to tell if the Tsarnaev brothers would still be radicalized. The POD is 15 years prior to 2013 and the big event that makes this TL diverge from ours didn't occur until 2004. From the recent Netflix documentary I watched regarding the Boston Marathon bombings and manhunt, the older Tsarnaev got radicalized because he couldn't be accepted to the U.S. Olympic Team to compete in boxing since he wasn't a natural-born American. He had this notion that the entire system was rigged and manipulated, which made him disillusioned with the U.S. as a whole.
Because there's no such thing as a utopia. Cancel out one bad thing to make a good thing but another one would take its place.
Rule of exchange or rule of trade-offs.
It would probably be like terrorism in the 1970s: hostage-taking, mass shootings, bombings, vehicle ramming, or use of stolen biological or chemical weapons
Hey this isnt Fullmetal Alchemist!
There's no big negative price for getting headpats, everyone should get headpats
But yeah expecting utopia from humans is a silly call, let alone after the 2000s when so many genocides already happened that any physical conception of utopia is self-defeated by the fact it'd be built over millions of corpses of previous fallen humans
Oh yeah, I know that, but still, what I meant was that this TL felt I was just reading the news back in the day, it just feels familiar.
(Idk really how to put it)
I think it's an alternate version of that episode. In the 2005 pop culture chapter, Iwanh mention that The Flintstones had been rebooted by Seth MacFarlane, the creator of the cancelled sitcom Family Guy. This implies that Family Guy remained cancelled after 2002 and didn't get renewed.
I doubt that this version of South Park would be making fun of Family Guy in the alternate timeline.
Remind me because I don’t know if it was mentioned ITTL or not but is this Flintstones version animated?
Correct, Family Guy remains cancelled and MacFarlane moved on to an animated Flintstones reboot, in this they choose to parody Saturday Night Live instead
I remember there was a failed attempt OTL for a more mature Flintstones animated series on Cartoon Network and there was a pilot special for it called “Flintstones On The Rocks” but I believe it mostly received negative reception.
Is it like that?
I guess there wasn't a lot of basis for American Dad to be a TV show ITTL
Quite a shame but I'd make the trade 10/10 times its offered o:
Even if American Dad still existed in the timeline, it would probably be quite the different show. It would probably be more of a James Bond/spy thriller kind of show rather than being a parody of the 2000s Neocon/ War on Terror stuff from OTL. That's my best guess.