Gerneral Vlasov's 2 million man army

[MerryPrankster]

"that Himmler didn't like the Catholic Church very much"

Nope. Hitler didn't really have a high opinion of any religion (the only thing he worshipped was power); Himmler and his entourage were into some REALLY weird stuff. Someone suggested that a Himmler-takes-over-the-Reich scenario would involve human sacrifices beneath the Brandenberg Gate.

 

[Max Sinister]

Hitler believed that Christianity was a religion for pacifists and victims. (Or, as the rightwings of today'd say: Pinko commie traitors!) He told Speer that he wished the Germans had the religion of the Japanese (he thought that their religion was all about "You have to die for your country"), or Islam, with the Jihad thing, at least.
Still he managed to cooperate with the Xian churches in Germany, esp. with the protestants. Which didn't prevent him from planning to destroy the churches after the Endsieg. (F.e. he planned to install another pope in Spain, and later another ones in Germany and France to break up Catholicism.) Some people claim he was atheist, but I differ - he wanted to make his own religion, with himself as its god, or its prophet at least.

 

[Grey Wolf]

An interesting article on the Waffen SS and how it first recruited Aryan-ish volunteers then later anyone :-

http://www.wssob.com/wss.html

And this, although a discussion board post, is interesting on the Bosnian Muslims :-

http://www.oxfordshireforums.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7935

Grey Wolf

 

[PaleHorseRiding]

No the really Scary Person would be if Reinhard Heydrich came to Power He was a Brilliant Pragmatic Sociopath who created the Final Solution in the First Place. Put Him in Charge and WW2 becomes a hell even the mongols would fear. Picture as you walk into a place you kill everything that twitches whole areas Depopulated as the Germans walk in. Or He might even have Done the Sane thing and liberated them and been nice. It depeneded on what he felt worked best. He is still Hated More than the Sovs in In Chech republic. He was also the Only German Leader actually Assasinated by the Allies during the war. What does this tell you about the Threat he posed to them.

 

[Grimm Reaper]

Again the principle required is to completely revamp the fundamental philosophy of Nazi Germany. We could presume that Hitler is killed in some accident around December 1941 on the way to visit the Wehrmacht and the German traditionalists(army, navy, Canaris, etc) seize the opportunity, dramatically changing the attitude of the nation, especially if the SS and other hard-liners seek to take advantage and lose the struggle. Basically we just changed this back into Kaiser Wilhelm rematch instead of the Nazis.

Or what if Hitler was willing, but planning to betray Vlasov as soon as the war is over? Would that work or would Vlasov be wary?

This was the plan in Newt Gingrich's 1945, where Hitler was badly injured and didn't recover to run the nation for nearly a year, and a more moderate/practical triumverate ran things in his absence.

 

[MerryPrankster]

"Or what if Hitler was willing, but planning to betray Vlasov as soon as the war is over? Would that work or would Vlasov be wary?"

Hitler would have probably arranged for Vlasov to be poisoned at a state dinner and then disband his army (send them off to be cannon fodder somewhere in vassal-state armies or simply kill all of them) in the aftermath of victory. Vlasov probably won't be stupid enough to fall for that...you might very well have a renewed war if Hitler botches something like that.

The outcome of that is debatable. If Vlasov has a huge army of anti-Stalinist Soviets loyal to him alone, he might be able to win if the Nazis are very weakened by their victory (the straw that broke the camel's back). However, it might very well end up something like the 1921 naval insurrection against the Bolsheviks in St. Petersburg...they valiantly hold out for a short time, kill four or five for every man they lose, and are ultimately smashed.

 

[Valamyr]

It doesnt take Hitlers death to make this work for a time at least. Say Rosenberg manages to push his views better prior to the invasion. In early 1941, Hitler isnt yet insane, in fact, he remains rather quite pragmatic and may accept a temporary handicap for long term gains.

Under a variation of the Rosenberg proposals, Vlasov could have his place. His "light troops" would in fact recieve many dangerous/suicidal missions of course to keep their numbers manageable. What a better way to depopulate than make the enemy kill himself for you? Those of these missions that actually succeed would be used as propaganda to keep the other "Free Russians" going.

At the end of the war, though, it is to be made certain he has little influence and no real power to oppose Germany. Then Germany shall annex several areas that were promised independence, but accept in others to set up puppet states for the time being, and focus their eastern colonialisation plans in stages. First the baltic states and Beylorussia, and only when those are German, once the weakened poles and ukrainians who have served as very cheap labor in the meantime are exhausted, will these territories be colonized as well.

Its probably more realistic and efficient that way than their OTL approach of "Hey, lets just send 10 million germans all over the place, as fast as we can!"

 

[aktarian]

He was also the Only German Leader actually Assasinated by the Allies during the war. What does this tell you about the Threat he posed to them.

That was because his policy of carrot and stick was working and more and more Czhechs opted for carrot. It was also beleived his death will trigger retaliation which will drive more people into resistance.