German Nuclear Program (Bomb/Reactor)

Hitler's Bombe is not far-fetched. The strong majority of author Rainer Karlsch's research and provocative claims have been corroborated by significant archival research, particularly over the past ten years. The state of WWII historiography is advancing by leaps and bounds when it comes to the development of nuclear weapons. Most who study the conflict are completely unaware of the most recent findings.
Far fetched is being kind. The book has been torn apart by historians and (especially) physicists as utter drivel.


Sigh, you take a quiet weekend away and this happens....
 
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altamiro

Banned
5% enrichment is pathetic. It's barely enough to do experiments on. There are rocks in Canada with higher levels of enrichment than that.

Without knowing if you're talking about uranium enriched to 35% - usable in reactors to generate a sustainable reaction- or uranium enriched to 80% (and again,my caveat on the precise number applies), we don't know if the 2.5mg you mention is pathetically inadequate or completely and utterly pathetically inadequate. IIRC, critical mass of 80% enriched uranium is around 5kg. (Caveat applies).

Any source that doesn't quote the percentage enrichment is basically worthless with regard to discussions on this subject.
You might be mixing up overall uranium content in an ore and U-235 content in natural uranium. The latter is 0,7% everywhere in the world, including Canada. The former obviously varies and there are some rocks in Canada with 5-8% uranium indeed. The enrichment level refers to the U-235 content.
Normally the enrichment for civilian light water reactors is somewhere around 3-5%, but there are designs able to work with natural uranium such as the CANDU, or the first iteration of the Soviet RBMK (of the Chernobyl fame).

Now the fact is that designing a reactor that can generate heat in a controlled manner is MUCH easier than designing a nuclear bomb. What if the Nazi scientists (starting early enough) got this insight as well? It might allow shorter deadlines and therefore tangible impact on the outcome of the war which in turn would get them way more political support and manpower. Most likely it would be STILL not fast enough but Allies finding a Type XXI equivalent sub under construction with an experimental reactor inside after surrender is signed is still a more plausible outcome than a bomb.
 
You might be mixing up overall uranium content in an ore and U-235 content in natural uranium. The latter is 0,7% everywhere in the world, including Canada. The former obviously varies and there are some rocks in Canada with 5-8% uranium indeed. The enrichment level refers to the U-235 content.
Normally the enrichment for civilian light water reactors is somewhere around 3-5%, but there are designs able to work with natural uranium such as the CANDU, or the first iteration of the Soviet RBMK (of the Chernobyl fame).

Now the fact is that designing a reactor that can generate heat in a controlled manner is MUCH easier than designing a nuclear bomb. What if the Nazi scientists (starting early enough) got this insight as well? It might allow shorter deadlines and therefore tangible impact on the outcome of the war which in turn would get them way more political support and manpower. Most likely it would be STILL not fast enough but Allies finding a Type XXI equivalent sub under construction with an experimental reactor inside after surrender is signed is still a more plausible outcome than a bomb.
Compared to the old Shinkolobwe ore that's tailing waste...
 

David Flin

Gone Fishin'
Now the fact is that designing a reactor that can generate heat in a controlled manner is MUCH easier than designing a nuclear bomb. What if the Nazi scientists (starting early enough) got this insight as well? It might allow shorter deadlines and therefore tangible impact on the outcome of the war which in turn would get them way more political support and manpower. Most likely it would be STILL not fast enough but Allies finding a Type XXI equivalent sub under construction with an experimental reactor inside after surrender is signed is still a more plausible outcome than a bomb.

It's obviously hard to tell, given that we have got the benefit of hindsight, but the difference between generating heat in a controlled manner and generating it in a manner that will create an atomic bomb is, in the words of an expert of my acquaintance; "Bleeding obvious."
 
The Nazis have no real delivery platform,
Mainly a question to sate my own curiosity and potentially have the Nazis waste more resources on an essentially useless super weapon, but couldn’t they have created nuclear artillery? Make the bomb, stick it in a modified Gustav gun, and fire it somewhere in range. It’s no B-29, but as far as I’m aware it should theoretically work as a delivery platform.
 

Garrison

Donor
Mainly a question to sate my own curiosity and potentially have the Nazis waste more resources on an essentially useless super weapon, but couldn’t they have created nuclear artillery? Make the bomb, stick it in a modified Gustav gun, and fire it somewhere in range. It’s no B-29, but as far as I’m aware it should theoretically work as a delivery platform.
Highly doubtful. Firing a gun type weapon could result in a detonation. an implosion bomb would probably be wrecked and a dirty bomb might launch but given the prevailing winds I wouldn't want to be manning that gun.
 
Mainly a question to sate my own curiosity and potentially have the Nazis waste more resources on an essentially useless super weapon, but couldn’t they have created nuclear artillery? Make the bomb, stick it in a modified Gustav gun, and fire it somewhere in range. It’s no B-29, but as far as I’m aware it should theoretically work as a delivery platform.

You'd need vacuum-tube era electronics that can withstand 900 gee acceleration (V-2 was only 5 gee)
 
Highly doubtful. Firing a gun type weapon could result in a detonation. an implosion bomb would probably be wrecked and a dirty bomb might launch but given the prevailing winds I wouldn't want to be manning that gun.
That’s a thought, the Nazis nuking themselves on accident.
You'd need vacuum-tube era electronics that can withstand 900 gee acceleration (V-2 was only 5 gee)
Unfortunate, the other post gave me hope that the Nazis would literally have the gun blow up in their face.
 

Garrison

Donor
That’s a thought, the Nazis nuking themselves on accident.

Unfortunate, the other post gave me hope that the Nazis would literally have the gun blow up in their face.
Well cheer up, its the Nazi's so they might build some 'foolproof' launch system and blow themselves up anyway. There is no complex problem Nazi engineers couldn't look at and figure out a way to make it even more complicated and possibly lethal.
 
Well cheer up, its the Nazi's so they might build some 'foolproof' launch system and blow themselves up anyway. There is no complex problem Nazi engineers couldn't look at and figure out a way to make it even more complicated and possibly lethal.
By lethal, should I presume you mean lethal to their users and bystanders rather than the enemy?
 

marathag

Banned
Mainly a question to sate my own curiosity and potentially have the Nazis waste more resources on an essentially useless super weapon, but couldn’t they have created nuclear artillery? Make the bomb, stick it in a modified Gustav gun, and fire it somewhere in range. It’s no B-29, but as far as I’m aware it should theoretically work as a delivery platform.
It would take time and testing, to shrink it to even Gustav size bore, and then get Gustav moved to where it could make a difference without being destroyed by air attack
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
Mainly a question to sate my own curiosity and potentially have the Nazis waste more resources on an essentially useless super weapon, but couldn’t they have created nuclear artillery? Make the bomb, stick it in a modified Gustav gun, and fire it somewhere in range. It’s no B-29, but as far as I’m aware it should theoretically work as a delivery platform.
The easy answer is no.

Slightly more detailed is that the early nuclear weapons where far too heavy (roughly 10,000 pounds) for anything except the 80 cm Schwere Gustav "Dora"railroad gun. That weapon too five weeks to prepare to fire once reaching its destination and required a crew of 4,000. Bound to draw some attention., especially from a thousand or so B-17/24/25/29/32 and or Lancaster/Mosquitoes along with at least that many P-38/47/51 and/or Spitfires/Tempest/Typhoons. It also had a max range of 47 kilometers (29 miles).

The other factor is WHY early bombs were so damned heavy, wiring. While less an issue with Little Boy, where most of the weight was high explosive, Fat Man, and all early implosion weapons, were loaded with heavy copper wiring, capacitors and TUBES (no transistors existed at the time) Every bit of the eletronics had to work perfectly down to the millisecond (the effort taken to ensure that every length of wire discharged at the same millisecond itself was incredible) and tubes of the day simply would not have survived the firing sequence (I have profound doubts about the Little Boy design maintaining the breathtakingly precise alignment necessary to induce the fission reaction after being fired out of an artillery piece)
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
It would take time and testing, to shrink it to even Gustav size bore, and then get Gustav moved to where it could make a difference without being destroyed by air attack
The Mk-I (aka Little Boy) would, in theory, fight without needing be miniaturized. The weapon had an external diameter of 71 cm, which would have allowed for the addition of a different casing that could include driving bands to engage the barrel's rifling.

US solved that for VT fuzes.
You also need a battery. That seems to have been harder than the tubes
Magic words: The U.S. (or WAllies) did a lot of things, despite being pathetic cretins compared to the mighty genetically superior Aryan supermen of the Reich.
 
The Mk-I (aka Little Boy) would, in theory, fight without needing be miniaturized. The weapon had an external diameter of 71 cm, which would have allowed for the addition of a different casing that could include driving bands to engage the barrel's rifling.

It's a gun-type weapon, won't firing it out of a giant cannon at 900 gees cause the hemispheres to assemble?
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
I just realized that I am responding in a thread where I took Formal Mod action.

My apologies.
 
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