Gallic Empire survives

Sgt Detritus

During the latter half of the 3rd century the Roman provinces of Gaul, Britain and Spain broke away under Postumus. Under Postumus and his successors the Gallic Empire didn't last for long but what if it had??
 

carlton_bach

They'd have to develop a whole new state ideology first. THe only reason the Gallic Empire stayed Gallic was becxause they couldn't take Rome and Rome didn't have the resources to take them. For this state of affairs to continue, there would need to be an ideology that allowes a part of the Empire to remain apart for a longer period of time. Perhaps a concept of co-emperorship, or a Hellenistic-model kingship.

Territorial co-emperorship of two or more not mutually allied emperors at this point in time could have interesting effects down the line.
 

MarkA

carlton_bach said:
They'd have to develop a whole new state ideology first. THe only reason the Gallic Empire stayed Gallic was becxause they couldn't take Rome and Rome didn't have the resources to take them. For this state of affairs to continue, there would need to be an ideology that allowes a part of the Empire to remain apart for a longer period of time. Perhaps a concept of co-emperorship, or a Hellenistic-model kingship.

Territorial co-emperorship of two or more not mutually allied emperors at this point in time could have interesting effects down the line.
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Abso;utely. One Emperor and one Empire was the core of Roman political theory at this time.

Even as late as Charlamagne, the only reason the pope felt he could crown him was because the imperial title was 'vacant' since a woman sat on the eastern throne.
 

An rovaineg

It's more complex than that. Neither Postumus nor Odenat (his equivalent in the east) tried to invade the rump empire. Postumus even refused to support a revolt in Milan. Basically they seemed to be content to defend their territory against barbarians.

Postumus presented himself as the restorer of Gaul, not as Emperor and he did not pursue Gallienus after he defeated him in 263. Even though Britain and Spain returned to the fold after Postumus' death. Gaul remained loyal to its successor, which suggest there was more to the Gallic Empire than a mere usurpation.

Now if you want the Gallic Empire to survice you may try :

  • A strong emperor taking over after Postumus. In OTL Victorinus and Tetricus were rather weak
  • Having a weak emperor in Rome instead of Aurelian. Let's say that Aurelian dies early and that Quinitilius remains emperor. Add a few usurpations and civil wars and the Empire will be too busy trying to survive to atack Gaul.
  • Having Aurelian is defeated by Zenobia of Palmyre at Immae and the Empire goes through another round of civil war
We might end with a situation similar to China after the fall of the Han dynasty :the unified empire is replaced by four states - a rump empire around Italia, the Palmyrene Empire in the east, the Gallic Empire and probably another state in Britain. The consequences will be far reaching.

  • The reunification will take place after one century or two of division, so the invasions of the fifth century will not meet the worn out OTL empire but a rejuvenated powerfull state.
  • The third century crisis was the collapse of a state, not as in 450 the collapse of a civilization. The roman society, albeit divided, remains intact. There is neither Dark Age nor Middle Age, rather a cycle of divisions and reunifications as happened in China. Western Europe is united culturally even if not necessarilly politically
  • Christianity is significantly different from OTL, if its domination is not butterflied away
 

An rovaineg

The problem with Laelianus is that he is pretty much an unknown quantity. We don't know anything about him except that he revolted against Postumus and failed.

Now for the possible POD leading to a stronger Gallic Emperor
  • Postumus is not killed by his own troop at Mainz (the most obvious, Postumus was quite a strong man)
  • Laelianus succeds (as I said unknown quantity)
  • Marcus Aurelius Marius somewhat manages not to get killed after 12 weeks of reign and proves an effective leader (yet another unknown quantity)
  • Victorinus doesn't mess with another guy's wife and doesn't get assassinated as a result (he was an effective emperor but not a great one)
  • Domitianus' rebellion gets somewhere (another unknown quantity, we know him only through two coins)
  • Tetricus decides to fight Aurelian instead of surrendering and being appointed as governor of lucania. He is unlikely to win, however, as Aurelian was a very good commander. Now if Quintilius was Emperor instead of Aurelian.
IMO the best option is Postumus living longer.
 

Sgt Detritus

An rovaineg said:
The problem with Laelianus is that he is pretty much an unknown quantity. We don't know anything about him except that he revolted against Postumus and failed.

IMO the best option is Postumus living longer.
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Cos Laelianus is pretty much a blank canvas we could make up loads of stuff about him without being gainsayed.

I have to admit I don't know a great deal about this period in Roman history. I'm fine about the start and finish of the Empire but not so much about the middle
 
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