From enemies to close allies
- Thread starter clendor
- Start date
Nope, France and the UK were allies before the unification of Germany in 1871, they were allies during the Crimean War of 1853-1856.
And they could be ennemies after the German Unification, for example the crisis around Fashoda of 1898.
yourworstnightmare
Banned
How about Balkan cluster fucks:
First Balkan War: Serbia, Montenegro, Greece and Bulgaria against Ottoman Empire
Second Balkan War: Serbia, Montenegro, Greece, Romania and Ottoman Empire against Bulgaria
WW1: Serbia, Montenegro, Greece against Bulgaria and Ottoman Empire.
So first Bulgaria is allied with the rest and fight the Ottomans with them, then the rest stab them in the back and ally with the Ottoman Empire, and finally Ottoman Empire and Bulgaria are allied against the rest of the bunch.
First Balkan War: Serbia, Montenegro, Greece and Bulgaria against Ottoman Empire
Second Balkan War: Serbia, Montenegro, Greece, Romania and Ottoman Empire against Bulgaria
WW1: Serbia, Montenegro, Greece against Bulgaria and Ottoman Empire.
So first Bulgaria is allied with the rest and fight the Ottomans with them, then the rest stab them in the back and ally with the Ottoman Empire, and finally Ottoman Empire and Bulgaria are allied against the rest of the bunch.
Britain and Israel might count- from fighting Haganah in 1948 to Suez in 1956.
Do forced changes of sides count? I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Italy in WW2 yet, and there's also Finland from Continuation War to Lapland War.
The Balkan Wars probably set the record (in modern times at least), though.
Do forced changes of sides count? I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Italy in WW2 yet, and there's also Finland from Continuation War to Lapland War.
The Balkan Wars probably set the record (in modern times at least), though.
Nope. Forced change of sides doesn't count. Britain and Israel is a nice one, altrough Britain would strike in Suez if Israel did so or not.
Here's another one: Britain and the USA. from the war of independence and 1812 war, to mutual help in the 20th centuery
That took a fairly long time, though- they last fought against each other in 1815, and first allied 102 years later- and even then WW1 was not necessarily a permanent alliance and they were planning defence against each other in the late 20s and early 30s.
Don Grey
Banned
But thats not genuinly becoming allies as bulgaria had no choice but to join on the same side of the ottomans and the bulgarians treatment of turks or muslims in the country gives question marks on what they thought of there allie.
yourworstnightmare
Banned
Well, Balkans never make any sense anyway. Have always been the enemy of my enemy is my friend there.
Bulgaria COULD have stayed neutral so i wouldent say they had no choice.
The first and second Balkan war's are the winner's of this thread methinks.
Dementor
Banned
Bulgaria could have remained neutral, of course. I don't see what Bulgaria's treatment of its Muslims has to do with allying with the Ottoman Empire - except for the fact that the Bulgarian king managed to overcome the opposition to joining the Central powers by winning over the Muslim deputies of Western Thrace, part of Bulgaria at the time.
And during WWI itself, Italy went from being allied with A-H and Germany to backing out of the alliance and declaring neutrality to joining the Allies.
Don Grey
Banned
Well the title was from enemies to close allies. And by joing the otto's they had something to gain.But they werent close as example by the treatment of muslims in the country they didnt think too much of the ottomans.This was just a one time thing. As for joing the CP the bulgarians had to if they didnt they would have been over run in about a month when the war started.
Yes and thats why it took them a year to join the war irl.
Turkey wasnt going to spontaneously decide that it would be a good idea to invade through Bulgaria to get to Serbia.
Likewise the Entente wasnt going to invade Bulgaria to force open supply lines to Serbia when it was easier to bully Greece and Albania.
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Don Grey
Banned
Yes and thats why it took them a year to join the war irl.
Turkey wasnt going to spontaneously decide that it would be a good idea to invade through Bulgaria to get to Serbia.
Likewise the Entente wasnt going to invade Bulgaria to force open supply lines to Serbia when it was easier to bully Greece and Albania.
Staying neutrual would have been better then joing the Entente. As for reinforcing burlgaria how do they intend to get there shipping troops through neutrual countries.
What the fuck are you even saying?Staying neutrual would have been better then joing the Entente. As for reinforcing burlgaria how do they intend to get there shipping troops through neutrual countries.
First you say that if Bulgaria doesnt pick a side they will end up being taken over in a month.
Then you say staying neutral is the best option (WHICH IS WHAT I FUCKING SAID IN THE FIRST PLACE!)
Make up your damn mind or clarify what your saying ya Turk!
Don Grey
Banned
What the fuck are you even saying?
First you say that if Bulgaria doesnt pick a side they will end up being taken over in a month.
Then you say staying neutral is the best option (WHICH IS WHAT I FUCKING SAID IN THE FIRST PLACE!)
Make up your damn mind or clarify what your saying ya Turk!
First of all calm down this isnt 4chan.
The king overcame the opposition to join the central powers because if he had joined the entente the country would have been over run and he figured CP would win thats what i was saying. Secondly it would have been better of remaining neutural because CP lost. Its quite clear.
As for your last comment do you have a problam with my ethnicity because your using the term as if its an insult?
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maverick
Banned
What the fuck are you even saying?
First you say that if Bulgaria doesnt pick a side they will end up being taken over in a month.
Then you say staying neutral is the best option (WHICH IS WHAT I FUCKING SAID IN THE FIRST PLACE!)
Make up your damn mind or clarify what your saying ya Turk!
I'm going to warn you because this is apparently your first infraction.
Please be civil.
Dementor
Banned
I don't see what was particularly bad about the treatment of Muslims in Bulgaria. It was probably better than those in Balkan countries and of Christians in the Ottoman Empire. In any case, the treatment of a minority doesn't necessarily need to reflect on their foreign policy.
At this point Bulgaria had an outlet to the Aegean Sea:Staying neutrual would have been better then joing the Entente. As for reinforcing burlgaria how do they intend to get there shipping troops through neutrual countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bulgaria_after_Treatry_of_Neuilly-sur-Seine.png
The king never seriously considered joining the Entente. Quite apart from the fact that he was related to the Austro Hungarian dynasty, the Entente simply wasn't prepared to give him what he wanted. The Entente did promise to give Bulgaria most of Turkish Thrace, but offered only vague offers of mediation between Serbia and Bulgaria regarding Macedonia. And Macedonia was far more important by then than Thrace, to the king at least. In contrast, the Central Powers promised him the whole of Serbian Macedonia and the whole of Greek Macedonia if Greece joined the war. On top of that, Germany persuaded the Ottoman Empire to cede to Bulgaria the part of Thrace west of the Maritsa river.
The threat of an Ottoman invasion was probably the least important reason for joining the Central Powers. At this point the Ottoman Empire was fighting the entente at three fronts and not doing well in any of them, while if a war broke out Bulgaria would have only one front and support from the Entente. That situation is reminiscent of the First Balkan War and that didn't go well for the Ottomans, to put it mildly. In fact, some of Ferdinand's advisors suggested joining the Entente for this exact reason, but the king had decided at this point to join the Central Powers.