French/US Invasion of the british Isles ??
- Thread starter Euroman26
- Start date
LOL!
No.
Well I guess if the gods of the sea destined that Napoleon should rule the seas then he could invade the Isles.
No.
Well I guess if the gods of the sea destined that Napoleon should rule the seas then he could invade the Isles.
But since this is alternate history how could this have effected history as we know it?
Thande
Donor
What's for the USA to gain? What are they going to do, annex Liverpool as a territory? 
The US Navy in this period certainly punched above its weight, but they simply didn't have the ships to support even a small army. Sure if Napoleon did manage to pull off an invasion of the British Isles (unlikely but not impossible) the USA would probably leap in to take a stab at British North America, maybe even the British West Indies, but actually crossing the Atlantic? Only in Harry Harrison crack fantasies.
The US Navy in this period certainly punched above its weight, but they simply didn't have the ships to support even a small army. Sure if Napoleon did manage to pull off an invasion of the British Isles (unlikely but not impossible) the USA would probably leap in to take a stab at British North America, maybe even the British West Indies, but actually crossing the Atlantic? Only in Harry Harrison crack fantasies.
Burton K Wheeler
Moderator
This is the stupidest idea I've seen since the suggestion that the U.S. should use the MEK to overthrow the Iranian government.
Thande
Donor
Which I promptly misread as that the U.S. should use MEJ to overthrow the Iranian government. I'm not sure if that's more or less stupid.
It depends on whether or not he is successful.
Victory: Napoleon conquers England and Wales. Ireland and Scotland gain independence. The British Empire is in ruins as the colonies go ape-shit. There would of course be strong partisan activity which could lead to the French bugging out, but the Isles could be annexed in the end.
France becomes a world super-power, supports the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War (Known as the Second American Revolution) and defeats Soviet Russia (Which rose to power after the collapse of the Russian monarchy in the mid 1900's) during the First World War (Known as the Great European War).
Coming upon the 21st century we see a world ruled by the Empire of France and the Confederate States of America.
Defeat: The British Empire retakes the seas with the defeat of Napoleons Marine Grande. France is starved into submission before Britain occupies Normandy (for a time being) and creates Germany to keep France in check.
(I am just having fun. These should not be plausible at all.)
Victory: Napoleon conquers England and Wales. Ireland and Scotland gain independence. The British Empire is in ruins as the colonies go ape-shit. There would of course be strong partisan activity which could lead to the French bugging out, but the Isles could be annexed in the end.
France becomes a world super-power, supports the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War (Known as the Second American Revolution) and defeats Soviet Russia (Which rose to power after the collapse of the Russian monarchy in the mid 1900's) during the First World War (Known as the Great European War).
Coming upon the 21st century we see a world ruled by the Empire of France and the Confederate States of America.
Defeat: The British Empire retakes the seas with the defeat of Napoleons Marine Grande. France is starved into submission before Britain occupies Normandy (for a time being) and creates Germany to keep France in check.
(I am just having fun. These should not be plausible at all.)
Deleted member 5719
Many suspect Horatio Nelson had secret Catholic leanings. Had Napolean declared himself Holy Roman Emperor rather than Emperor of France, he could have been convinced to change over to the French side and taken his fleet to Haiti. He could then convince Toussaint L'Ouverture's army to board his ships to invade England, then a detour to Boston to pick up a hardy crew of Scots Irish Mountain Men, and back to blighty to meet up with the Duc d'Earle's fleet off Plymouth Hoe. The Jacobites rise in rebellion and London falls within a month.
And on a more personal note, this skunk is fucking ace.
And on a more personal note, this skunk is fucking ace.
More likely "We'll give you back Liverpool if you give us Canada"What's for the USA to gain? What are they going to do, annex Liverpool as a territory?
Anyway, as others have said the naval balance of power is far too much in Britain's favor for an invasion of Britain to happen with a PoD in 1812. Now, you could do an earlier PoD (such as France winning at Trafalgar) that leads to the French gaining a dominant naval position, with the final invasion of Britain coming in 1812.
Thande
Donor
Trafalgar's too late, really. By that point Napoleon had given up and dispersed the army he had assembled at the Channel ports, using part of it to achieve his victory over the Austrians at Austerlitz. The invasion would have come in 1803 or 1804.
True, but a French victory at Trafalgar (or at least avoiding the defeat) makes an invasion at some later date possible. After Trafalgar, the British are too far ahead navally to be beaten.
Thande
Donor
Possibly but I think by that point the Royal Navy's shipbuilding programme was too far ahead for the French to recover. Unless Napoleon managed to bag Denmark's fleet the way he tried to in 1806 in OTL.
Solomaxwell6
Banned
Nappy's plan was to swarm the British Navy in numbers. He could lay down about 3 ships for every 2 the British could, since he had the resources of a continent. While his starting navy wasn't as large or competent as the British one, given enough time he'd be able win and invade Britain. This requires two assumptions: 1) the British are incompetent and give France the time to build up its navy and 2) the continent plays ball and stays under France's thumb. Both are highly unlikely, but vaguely possible. So we have that.
Getting America to join? That's a bit harder. France needs to end impressment, and Britain needs to have kept it going. Given the time required for France to build up its navy, America would've already lost the War of 1812. I doubt we would've been eager for revenge quite so soon. So unlikely you could really get America to join in...
*facepalm*
Under certain conditions, Britain could certainly be invaded. If for whatever reason, America and Britain went to war today, you'd see Americans storming the beaches of Sussex. A millennium ago, the Normans Sealioned England. If you want to bring up Sealion, keep it to Nazi Germany ca 1942.
Getting America to join? That's a bit harder. France needs to end impressment, and Britain needs to have kept it going. Given the time required for France to build up its navy, America would've already lost the War of 1812. I doubt we would've been eager for revenge quite so soon. So unlikely you could really get America to join in...
*facepalm*
Under certain conditions, Britain could certainly be invaded. If for whatever reason, America and Britain went to war today, you'd see Americans storming the beaches of Sussex. A millennium ago, the Normans Sealioned England. If you want to bring up Sealion, keep it to Nazi Germany ca 1942.
France of the early 1800's was a credible naval power. Not the match of the Royal Navy, but not the guerrila sytle navy that Germany had in world war II.
For an invasion to be possible you'd likely need two massive, one sided naval victories in France's favor.
Oh and the US... what are they going to do... send six frigates and a regiment to help? I'm sure Napoleon will appreciate that.
For an invasion to be possible you'd likely need two massive, one sided naval victories in France's favor.
Oh and the US... what are they going to do... send six frigates and a regiment to help? I'm sure Napoleon will appreciate that.
What's for the USA to gain? What are they going to do, annex Liverpool as a territory?
"We've gotta make sure those Beatles are American, God dammit!"
-Andrew Jackson
What's for the USA to gain? What are they going to do, annex Liverpool as a territory?
Free the Irish of course
fillerfiller