French Navy fights on!

LordTerra

What if during 1940 the French Navy, or a majority of it, declares the Vichy government a Nazi-puppet and sides with the UK and 'Free France'.

How would this affect not only the war effect but on the French colonies due to the Vichy government now having very little influence over it's colonies due to either no navy or to small a navy to help them hold their colonies.

Would the French colonies declare independence from Vichy France or side with the UK and Free France.

As well as how would this effect Franco-British relations?
 
Orry

Orry

Donor
Monthly Donor
So when the RN arrive at Mers-el-Kébir the French go;

Sure we will sail with you to fight on.....

And the RN goes;

Bu***r we so wanted to open fire.......
 

LordTerra

Orry said:
So when the RN arrive at Mers-el-Kébir the French go;

Sure we will sail with you to fight on.....

And the RN goes;

Bu***r we so wanted to open fire.......
Click to expand...

While im sure they would joke about it in the lower ranks i'm sure the higher ups in the government and the Admirals will be happy enough with the French Navy as a consolation prize.
 

Ameise

Orry said:
So when the RN arrive at Mers-el-Kébir the French go;

Sure we will sail with you to fight on.....

And the RN goes;

Bu***r we so wanted to open fire.......
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, what are you grawlixing there? Butter?
 

Ameise

Orry said:
lol I was taught not to swear - so I used **** even in the 'clean' version to make a point :)
Click to expand...

But what word is it? I can't actually pin anything there in particular unless it's some British thing. Only thing I can presume is 'bugger' - not entirely sure how that's used, though, or what it means.
 
Drunkrobot

Drunkrobot

Sooner or later, those ships will need supplies, like ammunition and spare parts, possibly even whole new ships. What sort of interchangeability is there between French and British ships?

With most of the Navy siding with the Allies, it's possible that Algeria and/or Corsica sides with them as well. In that case, Italy is fucked. Whatever threat the Italians could put to sea would be over by Dec 1941, and a secure Mediterranean frees up precious ships for the Atlantic and the East. What sort of difference would a Fleet Carrier do for Force Z, given that a failure to provide air cover was a major part in its destruction?
 

Zheng He

Drunkrobot said:
Sooner or later, those ships will need supplies, like ammunition and spare parts, possibly even whole new ships. What sort of interchangeability is there between French and British ships?

With most of the Navy siding with the Allies, it's possible that Algeria and/or Corsica sides with them as well. In that case, Italy is fucked. Whatever threat the Italians could put to sea would be over by Dec 1941, and a secure Mediterranean frees up precious ships for the Atlantic and the East. What sort of difference would a Fleet Carrier do for Force Z, given that a failure to provide air cover was a major part in its destruction?
Click to expand...

A lot of ships will end up in American shipyards getting repaired and upgraded which is in fact what happened OTL after TORCH. Only in this case it happens a lot sooner.
 

Carl Schwamberger

Actually it did happen sooner. In 1939, as soon as the Nuetrality Acts were repealed France contracted US shipyards to help accelerate its maintinance/upgrades. This was interrupted for a few years from June 1940 & picked up again in 1943.
 

Alex1guy

Ameise said:
But what word is it? I can't actually pin anything there in particular unless it's some British thing. Only thing I can presume is 'bugger' - not entirely sure how that's used, though, or what it means.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's probably "bugger", :p
 

Zheng He

Carl Schwamberger said:
Actually it did happen sooner. In 1939, as soon as the Nuetrality Acts were repealed France contracted US shipyards to help accelerate its maintinance/upgrades. This was interrupted for a few years from June 1940 & picked up again in 1943.
Click to expand...

Great, you just gave me some ideas for the French Navy TL I am starting to work on.
 

Mike D

Ameise said:
But what word is it? I can't actually pin anything there in particular unless it's some British thing. Only thing I can presume is 'bugger' - not entirely sure how that's used, though, or what it means.
Click to expand...

Bugger has a few meanings. Technically it's an old word for anal sex but it also came to mean either to mess someone's plans up (that's buggered that up!), as a bit of a mild (these days at least) insult (you bugger!) or to describe something being broken (it's buggered!). It's also used (well, not so much any more when people are more likely to swear properly than they did in the old days) as a general gesture of annoyance or surprise (oh bugger!)
 

Paul MacQ

Monthly Donor
Mike D said:
Bugger has a few meanings. Technically it's an old word for anal sex but it also came to mean either to mess someone's plans up (that's buggered that up!), as a bit of a mild (these days at least) insult (you bugger!) or to describe something being broken (it's buggered!). It's also used (well, not so much any more when people are more likely to swear properly than they did in the old days) as a general gesture of annoyance or surprise (oh bugger!)
Click to expand...

A very Popular word in New Zealand in fact

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKY_OysWu3k

Toyota Hilux Bugger advert from New Zealand.
 

sharlin

Banned
The RN would probably be most welcome to have the MN fighting with them after the fall of France.

A large force of modern cruisers and destroyers as well as two good battlecruisers and a first class battleship almost complete and another on the way to being finished, yes please. Sure the French ships especially their Destroyers are purpose built for the Med with terrible range making them unsuitable for Atlantic operations but it would free up the RN and give the Allies two ships that can catch the italian battleships for one thing.

I'd assume that the Richeleiu would be taken to the UK for completion along with the Jean Bart, both would be most welcome in service. The French cruisers and DDs would do well in the Med but their AA outfits for the most part would have to be improved. Also the French ships are for the most part lightly built, their cruisers save three classes were barely protected against anything more than splinters in a desire to get the most speed (how very Italian) so they'd probably require more dock time due to damage. Still the French ships are most capable. Just don't send them to the Far East without a comprehensive refit of their AA armament....
 
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Zheng He

sharlin said:
The RN would probably be most welcome to have the MN fighting with them after the fall of France.

A large force of modern cruisers and destroyers as well as two good battlecruisers and a first class battleship almost complete and another on the way to being finished, yes please. Sure the French ships especially their Destroyers are purpose built for the Med with terrible range making them unsuitable for Atlantic operations but it would free up the RN and give the Allies two ships that can catch the italian battleships for one thing.

I'd assume that the Richeleiu would be taken to the UK for completion along with the Jean Bart, both would be most welcome in service. The French cruisers and DDs would do well in the Med but their AA outfits for the most part would have to be improved. Also the French ships are for the most part lightly built, their cruisers save three classes were barely protected against anything more than splinters in a desire to get the most speed (how very Italian) so they'd probably require more dock time due to damage. Still the French ships are most capable. Just don't send them to the Far East without a comprehensive refit of their AA armament....
Click to expand...

You also have a carrier that while flawed to say the least, if sent to the US for an upgrade can still be put to good use.
 

sharlin

Banned
She's large yes, but she's basically another HMS Eagle, big but small air wing and to have her operate more modern aircraft you'd need to do a lot of work and she's probably too slow to operate much more modern planes. She's a good escort carrier but thats really all without a lot of time consuming and expensive work probably better spent on a more capable ship.
 

thaddeus

Donor
would Vichy France even exist? or AH consider it an affront they couldn't control their navy (and colonies? if the fleet escaped to Algeria and was welcomed there.)

weren't the fleet and the colonies the REAL bargaining chips for French? here that is not an option and all of France is occupied.

possible some of the Italian troops sent to Libya and Greece IOTL occupy the area that was Vichy France?

agree the Italian fleet is doomed but wonder if, in the immediate aftermath of fall of France and with no relations to maintain with Vichy regime, Italy might have tried to grab Tunis? (lesser chance but Corsica?) and with Libya at risk from both sides Malta? (to close British airbase)
 
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