For the Republic: A History of the Second American Civil War

[MagicalPhantom345]

Elaborating: Yes, there will absolutely be trials.

NO ONE will want to give rise to the very erroneous idea that you can organize a military rebellion, overthrow the legitimate government, massacre hundreds of thousands of your compatriots, and be indirectly responsible for the deaths of millions. All of this, again, solely in the name of your own greed and desire for corporate profits...

...and the correct rule is to slap you on the wrist and ask you to please not do it again, solely because someone believed that being tough against the NatCorp leadership would have negative political consequences for themselves.

This is especially bad considering that, first of all, it's implied that the West is still hated in the future for basically looking the other way and pretending that SACW was "someone else's problem", which would make it have very little It makes sense to be so hard on the West while forgiving the NatCorp leadership.

Second, the United States uses a common law system under which, if there is another similar rebellion in the future, this precedent will bind future legislators in their attempts to impose harsh punishments.

Which makes it even less desirable NOT to show a strong hand, because you're basically telling any future rebel leader that there will be absolutely no negative consequences if he tries to do this again.

Forget trials. There needs to be a new Constitutional Convention since coup that led to the SACW made the original one redundant in how Senators like Huey Long and Hiram Johnson made there own fiefdoms, rule of law be damned.

I mean while unlikely, what changes are needed after Democracy failed THIS badly for the United States?

Also I am NOT saying they should get a slap on the wrist, all I am saying is that the Rule of Law should not be ignored. As that is what lead to the breakdown of order in nations AFrica and Latin America after independence.

 

[The Angry Observer]

So at the end of this war Europe will be taken over by communist @The Angry Observer

I don't want to tip my hand too much, but this isn't the plan at the moment, at least not wholly.

 

[The Angry Observer]

No! Not the chad Harry Truman!

He died as he lived 🙏

 

[The Angry Observer]

It is good to know that it is something specific and is not going to be a habit.

I mean, from what I've seen, the idea of "all the bad guys will ally themselves" is very common, but usually that has no basis in reality, and often tends to be just an excuse to be able to say "then we'll kill them off." all at once" in a justified manner.

When normally what we would see are criminal elements that do collaborate with NatCorp, but they are not all nor do they necessarily do so because they believe in the NatCorp ideology.

Just like others, they collaborate with Rumpublic for various reasons. And of course those who don't care and support one or the other depending on what they believe benefits them the most.

In AH the most common version is "the Soviets and the Nazis enter into an alliance so that there is no doubt about how very good it is for the Allies to massacre them both."

I expect the organized crime and resistance will be interesting.

Yeah, we've thought about this kind of thing a lot. In fact, somewhere down the road we figure Republican war crimes should get a whole chapter of their own.

 

[The Angry Observer]

If nothing else, the Republican will need supplies and probably aren't too picky on their sources. Tons of criminal organizations are going to be willing to take that money if it means the Republicans get guns, food, booze, whatever and the criminal organizations will want to keep that relationship.

Also, you know, Mac might kill them all in the crossfire. So there's that.

A big part of the Natcorps' political pitch is restoring order. Economically, that means keeping the U.S. on gold and killing all the dirty commies. It also means coming down HARD on crime, including (on paper, at least) continuing to enforce Prohibition. The Natcorps wouldn't have America's fondness for trials and due process, either, which will make them popular with some people for "decisively" putting an "end" to the problem.

 

[The Angry Observer]

Just wondering but will the military and political leadership of the NatCorp regime be put on trial after the SACW?

If the Republicans win, whatever Natcorps they can get their hands on will be tried and executed.

 

[The Angry Observer]

Elaborating: Yes, there will absolutely be trials.

NO ONE will want to give rise to the very erroneous idea that you can organize a military rebellion, overthrow the legitimate government, massacre hundreds of thousands of your compatriots, and be indirectly responsible for the deaths of millions. All of this, again, solely in the name of your own greed and desire for corporate profits...

The Natcorps also just aren't the Confederates, either. In the Civil War, the goal of Lincoln and the Republicans was to save the Union and abolish slavery. The Confederates were trying to secede so they could protect slavery. After the Confederacy had been thoroughly defeated militarily, and after slavery had been abolished permanently, the endgame was building America back better than ever. Of course, it didn't quite pan out like this, since Lincoln was murdered and the Republicans would eventually lose the capital to enforce Reconstruction, but the endgame of the war nonetheless involved reconciliation with the south at some point for most.

The dynamic between Al Smith and the Natcorps is way different. The March on Washington was a naked putsch by a general against his own superiors, paving way for a massive war that came with Naziesque crimes against humanity, killing millions and ruining millions more. The Confederates were regional and fighting over a specific issue-- regions can be reconquered and slavery can be made moot by abolishing it. MacArthur is more comparable to Caesar, in that he lead an army against his own government to seize power. Now, he has to win, or he will be destroyed and shown no mercy.

 

[CountryUsedToBeBritish]

Since the coup and Natcorp was backed by many big companies, I wonder how that will effect businesses and laws around them post war.

 

[MagicalPhantom345]

Since the coup and Natcorp was backed by many big companies, I wonder how that will effect businesses and laws around them post war.

Probably gonna lead to new legislation to limit the powers of the Private sector and the Military. Since they were big reasons for causing this whole mess.

Although this is the United States were talking about, there not exactly known for living up to their ideals or boasts.

 

[Whiteshore]

Since the coup and Natcorp was backed by many big companies, I wonder how that will effect businesses and laws around them post war.

Probably gonna lead to new legislation to limit the powers of the Private sector and the Military. Since they were big reasons for causing this whole mess.

Although this is the United States were talking about, there not exactly known for living up to their ideals or boasts.

Especially with how the Rockefellers and co were aligned with the Republicans while Al Smith and his "inner circle" were not a particularly progressive bunch, being fundamentally conservative in character and attitude.

 

[MagicalPhantom345]

Especially with how the Rockefellers and co were aligned with the Republicans while Al Smith and his "inner circle" were not a particularly progressive bunch, being fundamentally conservative in character and attitude.

Feels ironic how Huey Long is the most genuinely progressive leader during this conflict.
Hiram Johnson doesn't count since he's a traitor for leaving the rest of nation to burn

 

[The Angry Observer]

Especially with how the Rockefellers and co were aligned with the Republicans while Al Smith and his "inner circle" were not a particularly progressive bunch, being fundamentally conservative in character and attitude.

It's a tenuous tightrope to walk. There's a weird dynamic, where the Republic's rank-and-file are almost all staunch leftist sympathizers, the President is a moderate Democrat, and Congress is controlled by the conservative Republicans. The next chapter will be on the state of the Natcorps' internal politics, and the one after that will give a quick overview of the political realignment happening inside the American Republic. The Republicans, ostensibly the ones taking the fight to the oligarchs, have many wealthy conservatives in their leadership that are profiting hugely off the war. Meanwhile the Natcorps, whose whole reason for existing was to protect capitalism, have ruined many fortunes and are forcing countless more to slave for the war effort. This is why I really think/hope people will like the next update, as it will focus on how MacArthur's regime keeps power and manages its new empire.

 

[GaysInSpace]

Elaborating: Yes, there will absolutely be trials.

NO ONE will want to give rise to the very erroneous idea that you can organize a military rebellion, overthrow the legitimate government, massacre hundreds of thousands of your compatriots, and be indirectly responsible for the deaths of millions.

Angry and I have discussed the postwar in great depth, particularly with regards to this topic, and more broadly about the reassertion of the rule of law across the country. We have plans for everything from special commissions on sensitive topics, the return of civil order to the war-torn areas, to the treatment of veterans of the defeated side from high-level officers down to the conscripted ranks. The transition out of the war is an extremely important part of this for us, and we wish to do it justice to the best of our ability.

 

[TheImperialTheorist]

Having just read through this, I must admit this is a stirring piece of work. The Business Plot has been a trivial piece of history, yet its rammifications, if it came to pass, would've rippled through the history books. This narrative properly depicts that rippling. I also feel that this depiction of the struggle between democracy and fascism a frightening display, especially as the crimes of fascism that IOTL were on another continent become, in the words of a VP, "an obscene period in our nation's history." I really hope we see democracy win in the end, and that America does not let herself shrink from foes abroad but give them their just deserts in supporting the backstabber.

I'd also like to ask about the history of comic books during this time. Especially superheros. I can easily see Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, as the Natpops gather up their fellow Jews and push down on the common man, start pushing for their "Superman" idea to be published. It'd make for great propaganda. Same goes for Captain America, Batman (perhaps a reflection of the Rockefellers but the tragedy of Bruce Wayne coming from fascists gunning down the Waynes for their support for democracy), Wonder Woman, etc.

 

[The Angry Observer]

Having just read through this, I must admit this is a stirring piece of work. The Business Plot has been a trivial piece of history, yet its rammifications, if it came to pass, would've rippled through the history books. This narrative properly depicts that rippling. I also feel that this depiction of the struggle between democracy and fascism a frightening display, especially as the crimes of fascism that IOTL were on another continent become, in the words of a VP, "an obscene period in our nation's history." I really hope we see democracy win in the end, and that America does not let herself shrink from foes abroad but give them their just deserts in supporting the backstabber.

Thank you, I’m so flattered that you find it compelling! This has been a real joy to write and put together over the last few months, and we’re both so grateful that people have taken interest.

I'd also like to ask about the history of comic books during this time. Especially superheros. I can easily see Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, as the Natpops gather up their fellow Jews and push down on the common man, start pushing for their "Superman" idea to be published. It'd make for great propaganda. Same goes for Captain America, Batman (perhaps a reflection of the Rockefellers but the tragedy of Bruce Wayne coming from fascists gunning down the Waynes for their support for democracy), Wonder Woman, etc.

Yeah, this is definitely a thing to consider that we’ll address down the line. Like you said, the left-wing bent of men like Shuster and Siegel makes then exactly the kind of people that would be championing the Republic’s cause in popular culture. Someone else mentioned *Citizen Kane*. Near the end, we’re probably going to do a big chapter(s) on what U.S. culture is like in the aftermath.

 

[MagicalPhantom345]

If nothing else, the Republican will need supplies and probably aren't too picky on their sources. Tons of criminal organizations are going to be willing to take that money if it means the Republicans get guns, food, booze, whatever and the criminal organizations will want to keep that relationship.

Also, you know, Mac might kill them all in the crossfire. So there's that.

It just occurred to me while thinking about Criminal organizations making a profit off of smuggling American's across the border to Canada and Mexico, since that is easy money to make while obtaining good PR to spread their influence. Although the biggest question is "What currency do they bargain with" since it's likely that the SACW has all but destroyed the US Dollars worth as a global currency.
Does that mean the British Pound will stay relevant longer than OTL, or will some other countries currency come to fill the void of the declining British Empire like the Chinese Yuan or the Soviet Ruble?

 

[Tiger]

I just got read this timeline today. A very interesting and exciting narrative.
The fate of neutral regions, especially the Long's South, is particularly interesting. Maybe he will be able to carry out proper industrialization.
The only thing that caught my eye: too dynamic German military activity and willingness of by Weygand pay such colossal price (Alsace and Lorraine). After all, it's only 1934-1935, Germany has just begun rearmament. And what with Night of Long Knives, which ended dispute between the SA and the Reichswehr?

 

[The Angry Observer]

Hey guys, good and bad news. Bad news is the next update won’t have space for some of the stuff I promised, like the mafia. The good news is that’s because I’m covering so much ground, and I really feel it’s inspired.

The topics of the next few chapters, tentatively, are:
- the Natcorp Regime’s internal drama and domestic policies
- organized labor, organized crime, and leftism in the American Republic
- the complex politicking of the Smith Administration through mid 1935
- the U.S. Navy during the war and development of aerial warfare
- the Minnesota campaign through midsummer of 1935

 

[thedarkmaster]

I just got read this timeline today. A very interesting and exciting narrative.
The fate of neutral regions, especially the Long's South, is particularly interesting. Maybe he will be able to carry out proper industrialization.
The only thing that caught my eye: too dynamic German military activity and willingness of by Weygand pay such colossal price (Alsace and Lorraine). After all, it's only 1934-1935, Germany has just begun rearmament. And what with Night of Long Knives, which ended dispute between the SA and the Reichswehr?

Been mentioned mate a few times and is my big gripe with an otherwise excellent and well thought out timeline.

It looks like plot armour and handwaivium are at play to get the world to a fascist v anti fascist world war!

But if you can get past it , its a good read overall.

 

[Whiteshore]

Hey guys, good and bad news. Bad news is the next update won’t have space for some of the stuff I promised, like the mafia. The good news is that’s because I’m covering so much ground, and I really feel it’s inspired.

The topics of the next few chapters, tentatively, are:
- the Natcorp Regime’s internal drama and domestic policies
- organized labor, organized crime, and leftism in the American Republic
- the complex politicking of the Smith Administration through mid 1935
- the U.S. Navy during the war and development of aerial warfare
- the Minnesota campaign through midsummer of 1935

Can't wait to see them soon! Hopefully they prove to be fun updates for us to peruse.