Fear, Loathing, and Gumbo/Rumsfeldia Con't

[David Ritz]

Thanks for sharing! I am actually the author of this spinoff. I eventually plan on posting it on this forum as well, but I want to finish it over there first and refine it a bit before it gets up on this forum.

It goes without saying in my view that Reagan beating Wallace in 1976 is the most plausible, and perhaps most significant, point of divergence from the original Gumboverse.

I have read your new thread. It looks like Arabia has fallen into chaos on schedule. Now we need to see if China does as well!

 

[SomeGuyOnline]

So currently, there is a spin-off TL on talkelections about Gumbo with many changes from the original with the biggest change being Ronald Reagan winning in 1976 against Wallace. It is currently at May 1979 as of this post. One thing to note is that it mentions of a new fascist movement in America in the 80s by Lyndon LaRouche emerging from fringe democrats in the latest post.

Five Decades of Fear & Loathing

Five Decades of Fear & Loathing

talkelections.org

I’ve just started reading it. Is this simply a spinoff of FLaG/Rumsfeldia or is it a reboot of the entire TL?

 

[Not Newt Gingrich]

I’ve just started reading it. Is this simply a spinoff of FLaG/Rumsfeldia or is it a reboot of the entire TL?

It's sort of both. I expand on the events of 1971 to give more insight on the rise of McKeithen, but the first real changes don't come into play until 1976.

 

[Beatriz]

What would the effects of the Indian civil war be? Where would refugees go?

 

[Not Newt Gingrich]

What would the effects of the Indian civil war be? Where would refugees go?

I actually could use some good ideas for this, because I'm not sure how to really work that out yet.

 

[David Ritz]

Thanks for sharing! I am actually the author of this spinoff. I eventually plan on posting it on this forum as well, but I want to finish it over there first and refine it a bit before it gets up on this forum.

Five decades is a long time. I am looking forward to it. You would of course have to invent a lot of people who were never born for TTL 2021!

 

[David Ritz]

I actually could use some good ideas for this, because I'm not sure how to really work that out yet.

Do you think the world generally will fall into chaos to the same extent as the original Gumboverse TL?

 

[Not Newt Gingrich]

Do you think the world generally will fall into chaos to the same extent as the original Gumboverse TL?

Yes, but a more controlled sense of chaos, if that makes sense.

 

[Not Newt Gingrich]

Five decades is a long time. I am looking forward to it. You would of course have to invent a lot of people who were never born for TTL 2021!

I don't like using fictional characters except for royals, tbh. But I do plan on using a lot of people who never reached office in real life in high positions as the timeline progresses.

 

[Not Newt Gingrich]

Lastly, if anyone has any suggestions for India in this timeline, I'd love to hear them!

 

[David Ritz]

Since this is an alternate 1970s-2020s reality, I think the 1973 film Soylent Green (which predicts 2022 NYC) may provide some inspiration of "controlled chaos"!:

 

[David Ritz]

I don't like using fictional characters except for royals, tbh. But I do plan on using a lot of people who never reached office in real life in high positions as the timeline progresses.

In the OTL 2024, it is still largely Silents, Boomers, and X-ers who occupy prominent political positions. They would have mostly been born before the POD.

However, I am intrigued at just how obscure are you going to go. Fran Drescher as revolutionary governor of California?!!!

How Fran Drescher Went From TV Nanny to Union Boss

 

[David Ritz]

Lastly, if anyone has any suggestions for India in this timeline, I'd love to hear them!

I have the idea that both Sanjay Gandhi and Magnus Malan in South Africa hold out in a rump state in the interior with a narrow ethnic base of support akin to OTL Assad of Syria holding on to the west through his patronage base on Alawites.

 

[David Ritz]

Yes, but a more controlled sense of chaos, if that makes sense.

Can you see OTL's divide between "global cities"/academic cities and the surrounding hinterlands still emerging in many countries.

Would this world be as grayscale...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1672646121653510145

...or unoriginal:

The age of average — Alex Murrell

In the early 1990s, two Russian artists named Vitaly Komar and Alexander Melamid hired a market research firm to survey the public on what they wanted in a work of art. Across 11 countries they then set about painting a piece that reflected the results. Each piece was intended to be a unique a colla

www.alexmurrell.co.uk

 

[David Ritz]

Since South Vietnam never falls, I can figure this Back to the Future II image being real in Gumboverse 2015!:

Back to the Future: Vietnam Now and Then

In 1989 I watched Back to the Future, Part II by Robert Zemickis, a complicated story about a youngster who from 1985 time travelled to 2015. Within the movie I spotted a poster from the imaginary 2015: US AIR Surf Vietnam. Back in 1989 I associated Vietnam with the war that lasted from 1955 to …

www.ipsnews.net

 

[David Ritz]

Yes, but a more controlled sense of chaos, if that makes sense.

One key factor I can see contributing to a controlled sense of chaos is a never-ending energy crisis by contrast to the OTL 1980s and 1990s.

The worse 1970s coupled with this factor would mean that global Boomers wouldn't be as relatively wealthy and there wouldn't be as much of OTL's greying of wealth.

The Graying Of Wealth

As wealth continues to shift to the nation’s elderly, seniors are in demand as both providers and consumers.

www.forbes.com

 

[David Ritz]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507766986885025807

To add to this Nicholas Taleb tweet in the Gumboverse, PSA >> USA.

 

[David Ritz]

Given the implosion of the Lesser Mao's China, I wonder what happened to the extraction of rare earths that would eventually become so important for the production of digital technologies?:

Rare Earths Reserves: Top 8 Countries (Updated 2024)

The outlook for rare earths is supported by strong supply and demand fundamentals as the world heads into a new economic era with a focus on clean energy and technological advancements.But with supply chain worries rising, it’s worth looking at which countries have the highest rare earths...

investingnews.com

China Dominates the Rare Earths Market. This U.S. Mine Is Trying to Change That.

Mountain Pass sits at the center of America’s plan to rival China’s iron grip on critical rare earth elements used in advanced commercial and military technology.

www.politico.com

 

[Beatriz]

Less stable resource-rich states surrounded by equally closed or unstable neighbors means their resources are defacto closed off

Also could parts of India be the Hong Kong/Taiwan to Maoist China?

HDI

 

[David Ritz]

Less stable resource-rich states surrounded by equally closed or unstable neighbors means their resources are defacto closed off

Also could parts of India be the Hong Kong/Taiwan to Maoist China?

View attachment 881573
HDI

Did you see may speculation on the Indian Civil War?:

"I have the idea that both Sanjay Gandhi and Magnus Malan in South Africa hold out in a rump state in the interior with a narrow ethnic base of support akin to OTL Assad of Syria holding on to the west through his patronage base on Alawites."

I suspect that any Indian equivalents of Hong Kong, Taiwan would definitely be in the south. These regions have historically had a stronger sense of mercantilist dynamism, in particular with Southeast Asia (which is why Tamil has been widely spoken there for many centuries). In the digital age, many cities in the south have been bigger tech hubs.