Fate of the Highlands' clans under an independent Scotland

[Admiral Brown]

If Scotland had remained independent, that is, if there had never been a personal union with England, nor any act of union, what would the fat of the clans be?

Would a Scottish government based in Edimbourgh eventualy clash with the clansmen? Would the clans eventually loose strengh on their own (without any government action) as group structures that bond their members toghether? Or, could the clans survive in force till the present day, as other "tribal" structures did in other parts of the world (such as part of the Arab world)?

On an unrelated issue: if the POD is after 1500, would this independent Scotland speak English or Gaelic by the present day (or both)? Would it be Protestant or Catholic (assuming England goes Protestant)?

 

[teg]

It probably depends how well Scotland develops. If its economy follows the same trajectory as other small European countries like Belgium or Switzerland, then probably the clans are eventually suppressed by the Scottish government. The lowland Scots love of the highland clans was very much a 19th century thing (see the Invention of Tradition by Hobsbawn) and it partially served as a way to assert Scottish national identity against England. In a world where Scotland remains independent, the clans will be just a pain/threatening menace. It may take longer but eventually they will be eliminated. If Scotland remains poor and undeveloped, then the clans could remain powerful into the 20th century.

I don't know enough to answer your other two questions, although my understanding is that Scotland was majority English fairly early on, at least among the upper classes.

teg

 

[DanMcCollum]

It probably depends how well Scotland develops. If its economy follows the same trajectory as other small European countries like Belgium or Switzerland, then probably the clans are eventually suppressed by the Scottish government. The lowland Scots love of the highland clans was very much a 19th century thing (see the Invention of Tradition by Hobsbawn) and it partially served as a way to assert Scottish national identity against England. In a world where Scotland remains independent, the clans will be just a pain/threatening menace. It may take longer but eventually they will be eliminated. If Scotland remains poor and undeveloped, then the clans could remain powerful into the 20th century.

I don't know enough to answer your other two questions, although my understanding is that Scotland was majority English fairly early on, at least among the upper classes.

teg

I just want to thank you for referencing Hobsbawm! I had to read his work a few years back in a readings course on the development of Nationalism. Super interesting scholar!

 

[Fabius Maximus]

If Scotland had remained independent, that is, if there had never been a personal union with England, nor any act of union, what would the fat of the clans be?

Would a Scottish government based in Edimbourgh eventualy clash with the clansmen? Would the clans eventually loose strengh on their own (without any government action) as group structures that bond their members toghether? Or, could the clans survive in force till the present day, as other "tribal" structures did in other parts of the world (such as part of the Arab world)?

On an unrelated issue: if the POD is after 1500, would this independent Scotland speak English or Gaelic by the present day (or both)? Would it be Protestant or Catholic (assuming England goes Protestant)?

With regards to your first paragraph, Lowland Scotland was already speaking Scots by the 1500s, and given that the Lowlands were the wealthiest and most populous part of the country, their language would probably always be the national standard. Of course, there is some debate IOTL over whether Scots is a dialect of English or a separate language in its own right, so depending on where you fall on that issue, the answer is either "English" or "neither".

 

[Admiral Brown]

OK, so we have a Scot-speaking government in the lowlands and Gaelic speaking clans in the Highlands. The clans way of life may pose a risk for the government, or at least it may be percieved as such from Edinburgh. If we add the existance of religious differences between both parts of Scotland, a civil war or, at least, infighting within this Scotland in the XIX century is a strong possibility.

Internationally, I think that if Scotland were to survive independent through the XVI, XVII, XVIII and XIX centuries it cannot be overtly hostile to England. I know smaller and weaker countries have survived next to stronger neighbours without been politically friendly towards them, but they have usually done so with the help of other strong powers. France could be an ally, but it is too far from them to offer immediate help in a crisis, and its navy was never as strong as the English one. Any Scandinavian power post 1500 would probably be weaker than England to offer much help to Scotland. This is way I think an indepentent Scotland that survives to the present day cannot be overtly anti-English.

Which lead as to the question of wheather England would intervene in favour of a friendly Scottish government if troubles with the clans escalate to the point it cannot longer deal with them on its own.

 

[Admiral Brown]

It probably depends how well Scotland develops. If its economy follows the same trajectory as other small European countries like Belgium or Switzerland, then probably the clans are eventually suppressed by the Scottish government. The lowland Scots love of the highland clans was very much a 19th century thing (see the Invention of Tradition by Hobsbawn) and it partially served as a way to assert Scottish national identity against England. In a world where Scotland remains independent, the clans will be just a pain/threatening menace. It may take longer but eventually they will be eliminated. If Scotland remains poor and undeveloped, then the clans could remain powerful into the 20th century.

teg

Maybe once the clans' way of life is drasticaly changed by measures taken by the Scottish government, the figure of the highlander can be reivindicated as a national symbol by the same government whose actions contributed to the disapearence of their traditions. It wouldn't be the first time such a thing happens: Argentine governments post 1870 took a series of measures that eventualy lead to and end of Gauchos traditional way of life. After 1900, or 1910 if you want, these same governments rescued the imaginery of Gauchos, and transformed Gauchos in a symbol of the "Argentinidad" (in oppossition with what they saw as prone to radicalize Spanish or Italian immigrants)