so in the early 1930s there was an anti-IRA movement called "The Army Comrades Association" or "The Blueshirts" much like Germany leftie IRA members and Blueshirts had shirt battles, its founder Eoin O'Duffy was the man behind the pro-Franco "Irish Brigade" in the Spanish Civil War, so is there any POD that could get a Fascist Ireland under O'Duffy and the National Corporate Party?
Fascist Ireland
- Thread starter Tom_B
- Start date
if I remember right O'Duffy spoke against antisemitism at 1936 International Fascist conference, I don't think he'd be so dumb as to start a war with the UK.
found my POD, the Blueshirts planned a "March on Dublin" in August 1933, they planned an parade and speeches to honor Arthur Griffith, Michael Collins and Kevin O'Higgins, the IRA and other leftists made it clear they planned to bush heads, De Valera banned the March, but it was unclear if the Army would take orders to suppress the Blueshirts(who were themselves mostly ex-soldiers) in OTL O'Duffy backed down and held smaller provincial parades rather than a grant parade in Dublin, De Valera banned the Blueshirts themselves because of the provincial parades, but what if O'Duffy and the right-wing Army and Police(De Valera fired O'Duffy as Commissioner of Police shortly before) side with the Blueshirts over De Valera?
The problem is that a fascist Ireland would almost have to be hypernationalist, and that means to some extent making angry pronouncements (at bare minimum) about the North at every possible opportunity. Indeed, Mussolini di not start out as a Germanophile or antisemite either, but became both to one degree or another later in his career.
Why exactly? The Blueshirts grew out of the IRA's right wing? The more appropriate comparison might be the IRA being like the Strasserites or Ernst Roehm's socialism; purged, but only as far as deemed necessary.
Highlander
Banned
Imagine if through some sort of insanity they do join the Axis, and Britain gets bogged down in an invasion of Ireland . . .
Hello there, long time reader first time poster. I guess this topic touched this Irish-American's heart.
It's certainly an interesting idea. Imagine Ireland does go fascist and ends up in the Axis camp. Can you imagine Germany being able to launch a two pronged Operation Sea Lion, with one wing as planned in OTL and another from Ireland? It would end up very...very badly for the Irish though. Although..I could also see an IRA style group waging a guerrilla war against the occupying Allies. That would not be good.
It's certainly an interesting idea. Imagine Ireland does go fascist and ends up in the Axis camp. Can you imagine Germany being able to launch a two pronged Operation Sea Lion, with one wing as planned in OTL and another from Ireland? It would end up very...very badly for the Irish though. Although..I could also see an IRA style group waging a guerrilla war against the occupying Allies. That would not be good.
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the spilt before the right and left wing of the IRA dates back to 1922, the Right wing before the Free States government and army and the left started the civil war, the IRA was banned and the first 10 years of the Free State were very authoritarian, the Blueshirts where born when the left under De Valera (after O'Duffy said there should be a coup to stop that from happening) the split by 1933 is deep, more like the Nazis and the Communist in 1932.
Well I'm very glad I got you to post
it'd be funny but in this TL the IRA would likely be asking(begging) for an Allied invasion, just think Éamon de Valera in London asking Winston Churchill to send troops into Ireland....the Irony is killer!
Would they get bogged down? Though there is a chance that the invasion would unify the Irish left and right wing, a fast invasion with the right message (no re-occupation, rather the establishment of a pro western democracy and a speedy British exit) could topple the fascists quickly.
Pangur
Donor
Far from sure
There is a few problems with thisTL The first is the ANA/Blue shirts were a little better than a joke, there had no real support or following. It is quite true however that when it came to March on Dublin that de Valera was far from sure about the support of the army or for that matter the police however he still had (at that stage) the IRA behind him and the army & police stayed loyal to the state. Had they (Blue shirts) some how got control of Dublin - so what thats one city and not the nation and they would have been removed by forces loyal to de Valera quite quickly. The other thing to toss in was that the Blue shirts were not really fascists in the first place, extreme right wing yes but not the real monty!
There is a few problems with thisTL The first is the ANA/Blue shirts were a little better than a joke, there had no real support or following. It is quite true however that when it came to March on Dublin that de Valera was far from sure about the support of the army or for that matter the police however he still had (at that stage) the IRA behind him and the army & police stayed loyal to the state. Had they (Blue shirts) some how got control of Dublin - so what thats one city and not the nation and they would have been removed by forces loyal to de Valera quite quickly. The other thing to toss in was that the Blue shirts were not really fascists in the first place, extreme right wing yes but not the real monty!
I Blame Communism
Banned
If there was a fascist Ireland for some reason I'd imagine it would be as sensible as General Franco, but it's hardly possible for an invasion of a country with hardly any native munitions industry, a long straight coast opposite Britain, every inch of its soil in range of British aircraft, no navy, a small population, and underdeveloped infrastructure to bog down. Our biggest problem would be managing the occupation in a way that didn't piss off America.
This is, of course, another reason no Irish regime was going to try it.
So much, then, for the prospect of a Communist Ireland
IDK hold of the Irish Civil War till 1925 and the IRA gets USSR backing and we have the Spanish Civil War early
The lifespan of Eoin O'Duffy's fascist regime would probably depend on how generous Churchill was feeling.
Because of Ireland's status as the "underdog" and victim of colonialism, Irish nationalism has always tended closer to revolutionary socialism than to right-wing ideas. It's very hard to imagine a serious fascist movement gaining power in Ireland and holding on to it.
The Blueshirts weren't a serious threat, anyway. Just one of the many fascist groups that sprang up like molds in every European country after Mussolini came to power. Even pacifist countries like Sweden had their homegrown Nazi wannabes. And let's face it - the Irish fascists were pretty harmless compared to their very nasty counterparts in other countries (such as the Iron Guard).
Anyway, here's their flag:
Because of Ireland's status as the "underdog" and victim of colonialism, Irish nationalism has always tended closer to revolutionary socialism than to right-wing ideas. It's very hard to imagine a serious fascist movement gaining power in Ireland and holding on to it.
The Blueshirts weren't a serious threat, anyway. Just one of the many fascist groups that sprang up like molds in every European country after Mussolini came to power. Even pacifist countries like Sweden had their homegrown Nazi wannabes. And let's face it - the Irish fascists were pretty harmless compared to their very nasty counterparts in other countries (such as the Iron Guard).
Anyway, here's their flag:
IDK hold of the Irish Civil War till 1925 and the IRA gets USSR backing and we have the Spanish Civil War early
That would be fascinating.