European language other than English becomes International language

[Roberto]

Why not? Geographic location is still the same. New Netherlands (didn't mean to just say New Amsterdam in the previous post), which contained the coast of New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Delaware, and a decent chunk of Maryland, is in a really good position. Assume those states, with the exception of Maryland, expand out into their OTL borders. The big advantage New York had, which will remain an advantage for New Amsterdam, is the Hudson River. You have a fantastic harbor that leads into the mainland. Then it's an easy hop to build the Erie Canal. I don't see why the Netherlands (or the Dutch US?) shouldn't be able to build the canal. That means New Amsterdam controls trade to the Midwest. That in itself is nice, and with added tariffs, it's even nicer. There will be more of an impetus to find a different route, of course, but that'll take a while and it's not like the Erie Canal didn't face that same competition OTL. There's also no reason to believe New Amsterdam won't become a big banking/stock city, especially if New Netherlands gains independence early on. Considering its stronger connections with the Dutch, it's even more likely than OTL.

In addition, the ARW will be butterflied away, or at least delayed. Remember what Britain's strategy was OTL? Take New York and sever connections between New England and the South/Mid-Atlantic. That's no longer necessary in this TL. It's far more likely the thirteen colonies will stay part of British North America (well, eight colonies, since five are basically entirely in New Netherlands...). This means slower development of the area, and slower westward expansion (would the French sell Louisiana to Britain? Would Britain declare war on Mexico just for a piece of desert?). No, there's going to be a power void in North America in this timeline that New Netherlands is perfectly positioned to fill.

Wow, I really like that scenario. If New Amsterdam was so succesful, the West India Company would be a much more powerful force than OTL. Would they apply this wealth and power elsewhere? Maybe somewhere in the Caribbean? Another attempt at getting Brazil? Or could they buy Louisiana from France at some point?

The last seems vaguely reasonable when one takes into account that without RI and CT to expand into, the Massachusetts colonies would likely look north, past Maine into Acadia and Newfoundland. Thus, British efforts would probably be doubled against France, even more than OTL. Could the Dutch reap the benefits of being between two so embittered rivals? Maybe they could buy some chunk of French colonies after a particularly bad French loss that needs to be paid off... Or the same but with the British instead.

 

[The Grin Without a Cat]

Wow, I really like that scenario. If New Amsterdam was so succesful, the West India Company would be a much more powerful force than OTL. Would they apply this wealth and power elsewhere? Maybe somewhere in the Caribbean? Another attempt at getting Brazil? Or could they buy Louisiana from France at some point?

The last seems vaguely reasonable when one takes into account that without RI and CT to expand into, the Massachusetts colonies would likely look north, past Maine into Acadia and Newfoundland. Thus, British efforts would probably be doubled against France, even more than OTL. Could the Dutch reap the benefits of being between two so embittered rivals? Maybe they could buy some chunk of French colonies after a particularly bad French loss that needs to be paid off... Or the same but with the British instead.

The thing is that the Dutch were the main rivals of both the English and the French all the way until the beginning of the 18th century when they lost their power.

 

[Rex Romanum]

Thank you Captain Obvious, we established that point one page ago. I didn't say that Esperanto wouldn't work because English already is the international language, I said that English is the international language today, irrelevantly that this thread was posted in the pre-1900 board.

I posted this thread here because I think this will require pre-1900 PODs, so...did I wrong...?

 

[The Uchronian]

Just like the title said, what would be the best way to make other European language becomes International language...?
Well...let's say:
1.Spanish
2.Portuguese
3.French
4.Dutch
5.Italian
6.German

Latin Spanish. European Spanish is only spoken by perhaps 40 million people, and there are so many distinct dialects............well, you figure out the rest.

 

[Roberto]

Latin Spanish. European Spanish is only spoken by perhaps 40 million people, and there are so many distinct dialects............well, you figure out the rest.

Are you implying that Spanish in Latin America is uniform everywhere?

And you imply that European Spanish is a different language from Latin American Spanish (the latter does not exist, by the way).

Besides, English has just as many varying dialects and accents. And English in Britain "only" has 50 or 60 million speakers, does that discount it from world language status?

 

[The Grin Without a Cat]

I posted this thread here because I think this will require pre-1900 PODs, so...did I wrong...?

Nah, it's quite alright, you did nothing wrong. Me and Don just had a silly little almost-arguement over barely anything.

 

[Dan1988]

Latin Spanish. European Spanish is only spoken by perhaps 40 million people, and there are so many distinct dialects............well, you figure out the rest.

Hmm - what if Asturian was an international language?

 

[Dan1988]

Are you implying that Spanish in Latin America is uniform everywhere?

No, but there are common features amongst the Latin American varieties, descending from a single koiné variety from 15th/16th-century Seville, in southern Andalucía, even if the final realizations are different.

And you imply that European Spanish is a different language from Latin American Spanish (the latter does not exist, by the way).

Well, Latin American Spanish is as different from Peninsular Spanish as Canadian French is from European French or as American English is from Southern English English. Peninsular Spanish actually reminds me a bit of French - then again, so does Rioplatense Spanish, Galician, and both Brazilian and European Portuguese.

 

[Roberto]

No, but there are common features amongst the Latin American varieties, descending from a single koiné variety from 15th/16th-century Seville, in southern Andalucía, even if the final realizations are different.

I suppose one could make such a case, but there are just as many common features amongst European Spanish dialects and between various European Spanish dialects and Latin American dialects. Grouping simply based on continent doesn't make any sense.

Well, Latin American Spanish is as different from Peninsular Spanish as Canadian French is from European French or as American English is from Southern English English.

Again, a meaningless statement as Latin American Spanish is not a unified distinct variety from Peninsular Spanish, whereas Canadian French is more or less a single dialect, etc.

Peninsular Spanish actually reminds me a bit of French - then again, so does Rioplatense Spanish, Galician, and both Brazilian and European Portuguese.

That's because you speak French. To me, Portuguese sounds like slurred, nasal Spanish, and French is a more delicate Portuguese, etc.

 

[archaeogeek]

Again, a meaningless statement as Latin American Spanish is not a unified distinct variety from Peninsular Spanish, whereas Canadian French is more or less a single dialect, etc.

There's actually two or three dialects of Canadian french, four if acadian is counted along >.>
The joy of large territory and relatively isolated populations until the 19th century.

 

[Xavier]

There's actually two or three dialects of Canadian french, four if acadian is counted separately >.>
The joy of large territory and relatively isolated populations until the 19th century.

Large territory and isolated population huh?

Modern Flanders : West-Flemish, East-Flemish, Brabantian, Limburghish
east-west distance less than 200 km. (each with local varieties)
No person on earth but themselves understands the West-Flemish if they go full steam ahead in dialect, and the Limburghians will sing you asleep when "speaking"

 

[Dan1988]

There's actually two or three dialects of Canadian french, four if acadian is counted along >.>
The joy of large territory and relatively isolated populations until the 19th century.

Actually, Québec French, Ontario French, the expat dialects in New England, and points north and west are basically one more-or-less homogenous variety with differences only in pronunciation and lexicon, with very minor differences in morphology and syntax. Acadian French is the one Canadian French that is totally different from the rest, though even that is gradually yielding to an Acadian-accented English or Québec French these days.

 

[Dan1988]

I suppose one could make such a case, but there are just as many common features amongst European Spanish dialects and between various European Spanish dialects and Latin American dialects. Grouping simply based on continent doesn't make any sense.

True, but in Latin American Spanish a lot of the differences were present from the get go, including its conservatism compared with Peninsular Spanish - the latter also being not really unified, as there are huge differences between Andalusian Spanish and Castilian Spanish.

Again, a meaningless statement as Latin American Spanish is not a unified distinct variety from Peninsular Spanish, whereas Canadian French is more or less a single dialect, etc.

Canadian French, the term, is actually in the same boat as the term Latin American Spanish - it recognizes that there are differences and it's not necessarily unified (in the case of Canadian French, with the inclusion of Acadian French).

That's because you speak French.

Well, an American English-accented (or, to be more specific, a Southeastern New England-accented) variety of International French that accepts Canadianisms.

To me, Portuguese sounds like slurred, nasal Spanish, and French is a more delicate Portuguese, etc.

Which is interesting, since I consider Portuguese to be a language with a French sound system with Spanish grammar - which gets interesting when we talk about the Portuguese speakers in the neighbourhood I work in, which are mainly Cape Verdeans and can switch to Creole or African French in addition to Portuguese.

 

[Dan1988]

Large territory and isolated population huh?

And when he says large territory and isolated population, he really means it.

 

[Xavier]

And when he says large territory and isolated population, he really means it.

And I gave an example that you don't need that to get substantially different dialects.

 

[elkarlo]

French and Latin would be relative easy, Spanish and German are a little harder but not impossible, Dutch has a small window in the 17th century but would likely need some settler colonies to succed, Portugeese are possible with a union between Castile and Portugal instead of with Aragon, Italian are incredible hard, simply because the language was standardised into some recognisable so late.

Spanish would be easy as well. Don't get sucked into every war possible, and make your nobility do something productive, and you got West Euro under Spain's heel.

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

How about Ottoman Turkish?

 

[kasumigenx]

Catalan
-No Cathar crusades
Scandanavian
-Vinland Succeeds.

 

[fero]

Interlingua replace French, Italian, Portuguese and Spanish. A Collaborative TL.

a little out of thread but...

I created this one in After 1900

Interlingua replace French, Italian, Portuguese and Spanish. A Collaborative TL.

have fun.

 

[SavoyTruffle]

An unlikely POD: Britain loses the Seven Years War, thus it doesn't propel it to the top above France.