España No Ha Muerto: If Franco brought Spain into the Second World War
- Thread starter Iggies
- Start date
I know this wouldn't matter much as Spain is doomed to lose, but what would Spanish "war goals" be like here? What exactly do the major figures in Madrid want to gain if the Axis wins?
IRL Vicky simply gave Tunisia and Vietnam to Italy and Japan without much of a fight
IIRC Tunisia was part of their losses in the treaty from loosing the battle of France. As for French Indochina it was less they didn't fight and more they couldn't fight. They had no ability to project their power that far east by that point any fighting would just be useless.
If Vichy even rumbles about doing that: Case Anton, done. Sure you may have sparadoic attempts by various french generals and admirals, but theyll all eventually be subordinated, like OTL and dealtt with.
They've just sped up the guarantee that Portugal is going to be a springboard for Allied advancement into the Continent. It'll be like the Peninsular Campaign except industrialized and way bloodier 0:
True, my assumption is that the Spanish and Germans are looking at military strength on paper - IIRC the Portuguese army wasn’t exactly top-tier at this point.
The problem of crossing the Pyrenees can be avoided by doing Anzio's on the Atlantic and Med coasts using Spain as a huge staging point.
I still don't really think it would simple or desirable compared to OTL though
I still don't really think it would simple or desirable compared to OTL though
Coulsdon Eagle
Monthly Donor
What an allied -aligned Portugal gives the Allies is a base on the continent which they can build up and force deployment of Axis units to the border, much as has been already observed with OTL Italy. More importantly, given the terrain on the Spanish-Portuguese border works for both sides, it gives the Allies air bases (perhaps after a lot of work) that will provide air cover over the Atlantic (replacing the fallen Gibraltar in that respect) and over regions of Spain & perhaps Southern France that could not be covered from French North Africa or Corsica.
I must emphasize that this story has achieved something that very few achieve: that you know from the beginning how it is going to end and you continue reading anyway.
The Eldorado Network, by Derek Robinson, one of the books referenced in the linked piece, is very good - a pitch black comedy, like all the author's works,
I must say @Iggies this outstanding work on a common “what if” that I’m glad is finally getting its due with a proper TL. Eager to see where you take this from here.
Just read the whole story so far.
All I gotta say is that I will be glad when Franco and Salazar both get what they deserve.
All I gotta say is that I will be glad when Franco and Salazar both get what they deserve.
I’ve been on this site for over a decade, and don’t spend as much time in the proper alternate history as I used to. Tremendous story so far. First timeline I’ve read in full in probably that long, however new it is. The 30s/40s in Spain is one of my favorite bits of history. Looking forward to reading more!
Garrison
Donor
That would basically be suicide for Vichy, and there were way too many Fascists inside it for them to risk upsetting the Germans.
Hard to say - there was a not insignificant portion of Vichy guys like Weygand whose ideas seemed to be more or less "let's wait a couple years, take a breather, and jump back in if the going's good", ans you have Darlan and his ilk who were raw opportunists. And the Allies - or at least the Americans - dealt diplomatically with Vichy extensively. But Vichy had a political program - it persecuted Jews and created am authoritarian system because that's what its leaders explicitly wanted it to do. Hitler initially didn't much care about French domestic politics as long as they gave him material support. They did what they did because they wanted to, and that includes German-leaning "neutrality". And when the Germans rolled Vichy up, the collaborators just kept on collaborating.
Something like the Darlan episode can absolutely still happen, but absolutely not joining the Allies. And even if some faction of them tried, it'd be over on the mainland in days. And it is worth noting that with Franco as an Axis member, sympathies towards opportunist authoritarian-conservative military juntas with extensive German ties are going to be
Uh
Limited
Wonderful writen TL.
Congrats.
I wonder what will happen with the republican government in exile?
By 1942 hey are divided in 4:
-Negrin in London claims he still is the premier, but after the dissolution of the Servicio de Evacuación de Refugiados Españoles (SERE), almost nobody listen to him out of the PCE.
- Prieto in Mexico has been able to create the Junta de Auxilio a los Republicanos Españoles (JARE) and keep it under his control, so he was the unnoficial leader of the spanish gov in exile. He was supported by the Permanent Deputation, without the participation of the basque PNV (nor the PCE, that was expelled). They wanted the reinstaurarion of the republic. Period.
- Diego Martínez Barrios was the interim President of the Republic. In Mexico he was able to unite the republican parties into Acción Republicana Española (ARE). He proposed the comeback of the republic but promised a referendum between Monarchy or Republic in order to attract monarchist dissidents.
- The anarchists by their own in the Spanish Libertarian Movement.
Everithing will change by 1944 with the conformation of the Alliance of Democratic Forces. But what will happen in TTL?
Congrats.
I wonder what will happen with the republican government in exile?
By 1942 hey are divided in 4:
-Negrin in London claims he still is the premier, but after the dissolution of the Servicio de Evacuación de Refugiados Españoles (SERE), almost nobody listen to him out of the PCE.
- Prieto in Mexico has been able to create the Junta de Auxilio a los Republicanos Españoles (JARE) and keep it under his control, so he was the unnoficial leader of the spanish gov in exile. He was supported by the Permanent Deputation, without the participation of the basque PNV (nor the PCE, that was expelled). They wanted the reinstaurarion of the republic. Period.
- Diego Martínez Barrios was the interim President of the Republic. In Mexico he was able to unite the republican parties into Acción Republicana Española (ARE). He proposed the comeback of the republic but promised a referendum between Monarchy or Republic in order to attract monarchist dissidents.
- The anarchists by their own in the Spanish Libertarian Movement.
Everithing will change by 1944 with the conformation of the Alliance of Democratic Forces. But what will happen in TTL?
Since these remnants were ignored by all Allied governments, it is most likely that they will not be taken into account and that the Allies will choose their own candidates. Maybe they accept some very famous, and decidedly non-communist, as a symbolic figure, but that's all. And I don't think they would accept any Basque nationalist because the plan was supposed to be to build a stable and de-Francised country as soon as possible to be able to continue fighting against Germany...