Elizabeth I dies in 1589

VVD0D95

Banned
A year after averting the Great threat of the Spanish Armada, Elizabeth I falls deathly ill succumbing to her illness on the 15th October, 1589, thus ending the House of Tudor.

What happens next?

Would James VI of Scotland succeed her? Would there be a succession crisis?

What happens to the hands in her government?

Does Philip II try to capitalise on the chaos?
 
With the final failure of Drake expedition of 1589 against Spain it could be an interesting moment for Philip II to made plans for this afortunate event. But with the rebellion in Flandes and the spanish involvement in the French Wars of Religion, I dont think that he would be risk another expedition against England.
Although a sooner O'Donell O'Neill rebellion in Ireland could decide Philip II to send an expedition to Ireland
 

VVD0D95

Banned
With the final failure of Drake expedition of 1589 against Spain it could be an interesting moment for Philip II to made plans for this afortunate event. But with the rebellion in Flandes and the spanish involvement in the French Wars of Religion, I dont think that he would be risk another expedition against England.
Although a sooner O'Donell O'Neill rebellion in Ireland could decide Philip II to send an expedition to Ireland

Okay interesting, do you think James VI of Scotland would succeed to the throne of England as well in this scenario?
 
I think that probably James VI of Scotland would succeed Elizabeth I. Elizabeth I has no sons. James is her cousin. James and Elizabeth are allies since the 1586 Treaty of Berwick and the marriage of James with Anne of Denmark in 1589 has provided him a protestant wife.
I think the most probable is that James VI would succeed Elizabeth I
 

VVD0D95

Banned
I think that probably James VI of Scotland would succeed Elizabeth I. Elizabeth I has no sons. James is her cousin. James and Elizabeth are allies since the 1586 Treaty of Berwick and the marriage of James with Anne of Denmark in 1589 has provided him a protestant wife.
I think the most probable is that James VI would succeed Elizabeth I

Okay that does make sense.

And indeed, and with him now being so newly crowned King of England, he can't put off having children with her, so I presume there would be children born much sooner.

Possible tree:

James I of England and VI of Scotland (b. 1566: d. 1616) m Anne of Denmark (b. 1574: d. 1619)

1a) Henry IX of England and I of Scotland (b. 1590: d. 1654)
2a) Elizabeth of England (b. 1592: d. 1644)
3a) Margaret of Scotland (b. 1594: d. 1624)
4a) Charles, Duke of York and Albany (b. 1598: d. 1649)
5a) Robert, Duke Gloucester and Kintyre (b. 1603: d. 1660)
 
The daughter of the Duke of Suffolk?

Didn't she die in 1568?
Eeek, read it as 1559 for some reason :oops:
Anyways it therefore means her son Edward Seymour could be a rallying point for anyone who does not want James. He is senior heir under Henry VIII's will.
 
Okay that does make sense.

And indeed, and with him now being so newly crowned King of England, he can't put off having children with her, so I presume there would be children born much sooner.

Possible tree:

James I of England and VI of Scotland (b. 1566: d. 1616) m Anne of Denmark (b. 1574: d. 1619)

1a) Henry IX of England and I of Scotland (b. 1590: d. 1654)
2a) Elizabeth of England (b. 1592: d. 1644)
3a) Margaret of Scotland (b. 1594: d. 1624)
4a) Charles, Duke of York and Albany (b. 1598: d. 1649)
5a) Robert, Duke Gloucester and Kintyre (b. 1603: d. 1660)

I think that it would be plausible and probable.
 
Eeek, read it as 1559 for some reason :oops:
Anyways it therefore means her son Edward Seymour could be a rallying point for anyone who does not want James. He is senior heir under Henry VIII's will.
Could be. But having not only England but also Scotland in an alliance against the possibility of a spanish intervention plus a marriage with a protestant wife made of James a more positive heir for England and I suppose a majority of persons in XVI' Englands would prefer this.
 
Could be. But having not only England but also Scotland in an alliance against the possibility of a spanish intervention plus a marriage with a protestant wife made of James a more positive heir for England and I suppose a majority of persons in XVI' Englands would prefer this.
Yes but how strong was this position in 1589 rather than 1603?
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Hmm all interesting points, seeing James VI having to fight to claim the throne would be very interesting.
 
Okay that does make sense.

And indeed, and with him now being so newly crowned King of England, he can't put off having children with her, so I presume there would be children born much sooner.

Possible tree:

James I of England and VI of Scotland (b. 1566: d. 1616) m Anne of Denmark (b. 1574: d. 1619)

1a) Henry IX of England and I of Scotland (b. 1590: d. 1654)
2a) Elizabeth of England (b. 1592: d. 1644)
3a) Margaret of Scotland (b. 1594: d. 1624)
4a) Charles, Duke of York and Albany (b. 1598: d. 1649)
5a) Robert, Duke Gloucester and Kintyre (b. 1603: d. 1660)
Why does the royal couple stop at 5? In otl even though he waited until 1594, they were still able to produce 7 children within this time scale, so it is more than likely that TTL James and Anne could have a few more. And would the fact that Anne could give birth and raise the children in London, mean that the chances of early death is cut?

so maybe:
James I of England and VI of Scotland (b. 1566: d. 1616) m Anne of Denmark (b. 1574: d. 1619)

1a) Henry IX of England and I of Scotland (b. 1590: d. 1654)
2a) Elizabeth of England (b. 1592: d. 1644)
3a) Margaret of England (b. 1594: d. 1624)
4a) Charles, Duke of York and Albany (b. 1598: d. 1649)
5a) Robert, Duke of Gloucester and Kintyre (b. 1603: d. 1660)
6a) Anne of England (b. 1605 d. 1651)
7a) James, Duke of Cambridge and Perth (b. 1606 d. 1670)
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Why does the royal couple stop at 5? In otl even though he waited until 1594, they were still able to produce 7 children within this time scale, so it is more than likely that TTL James and Anne could have a few more. And would the fact that Anne could give birth and raise the children in London, mean that the chances of early death is cut?

so maybe:
James I of England and VI of Scotland (b. 1566: d. 1616) m Anne of Denmark (b. 1574: d. 1619)

1a) Henry IX of England and I of Scotland (b. 1590: d. 1654)
2a) Elizabeth of England (b. 1592: d. 1644)
3a) Margaret of England (b. 1594: d. 1624)
4a) Charles, Duke of York and Albany (b. 1598: d. 1649)
5a) Robert, Duke of Gloucester and Kintyre (b. 1603: d. 1660)
6a) Anne of England (b. 1605 d. 1651)
7a) James, Duke of Cambridge and Perth (b. 1606 d. 1670)

Ah very true, I was merely showing those that might survive but I see your point.

Also, how likely is a succession war going to be?
 
Eeek, read it as 1559 for some reason :oops:
Anyways it therefore means her son Edward Seymour could be a rallying point for anyone who does not want James. He is senior heir under Henry VIII's will.

Although theoretically, Edward Seymour, has the strongest claim, in junction with Henry VIII's will, in reality, he was merely a commoner with a title, whose legitimacy was in question due to there being no proof, of his parents being legally married, because his mother, Lady Catherine Grey, had secretly married his father, Edward Seymour, 1st Earl of Hertford, against the wishes of Queen Elizabeth I.

So unless, this 28 year old man, could raise an army large enough to hold London, let alone the rest of England, it is unlikely we would see King Edward VII, any time soon.

Also, how likely is a succession war going to be?
I doubt if there would be a full blown war, although similar to his OTL early reign in England, James I, will encounter small pockets of resistance, rebellions and plots, to remove King James I from the English throne.

James I has the most regal and noblest of claims, while other claimers include:
- Arbella Stuart, a natural candidates to succeed her first cousin twice removed, Queen Elizabeth I
- Henry Hastings, 3rd Earl of Huntingdon, has a claim due to being a descendant of George Plantagenet, 1st Duke of Clarence, from the house of York
- Charles Neville, 6th Earl of Westmorland was a descendant of John of Gaunt
- Henry Percy, 9th Earl of Northumberland was a descendant of Edmund Crouchback
- Edward Somerset, 4th Earl of Worcester, claims from the Beaufort line of House Plantagent, via John of Gaunt and his third wife Katherine Swynford.
- Ferdinando Stanley, 5th Earl of Derby, who had a place in the line of succession according to the Will of Henry VIII, due to being a Descendants of Mary Tudor, Queen of France
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Okay interesting, so it's likely to be relatively smooth sailing for James in 1589.

If there are any rebellions, do you think that James himself might lead the force to crush them?
 
Okay interesting, so it's likely to be relatively smooth sailing for James in 1589.

If there are any rebellions, do you think that James himself might lead the force to crush them?

As smooth as it can be for a foreign king to govern another kingdom :D

I doubt James would be in the midst of the fight, I believe he would just use loyal generals to do it and offer people he owes debt to, to take the land and any valuables that they may find while putting down these rebellions, eg John Ruthven, 3rd Earl of Gowrie, being created a duke for commanding an army.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
As smooth as it can be for a foreign king to govern another kingdom :D

I doubt James would be in the midst of the fight, I believe he would just use loyal generals to do it and offer people he owes debt to, to take the land and any valuables that they may find while putting down these rebellions, eg John Ruthven, 3rd Earl of Gowrie, being created a duke for commanding an army.
Okay now that would be quite interesting, possibly preventing the Gowrie conspiracy?

Also, what do you think might happen to the old hands who served under Elizabeth? People like Cecil?
 
Okay now that would be quite interesting, possibly preventing the Gowrie conspiracy?

Also, what do you think might happen to the old hands who served under Elizabeth? People like Cecil?
Hopefully, avoiding all incidences caused by James' debt. And hopefully, the rebellions he face in 1589, wont be as big as the Main Plot or Gunpower Plot he faced in 1600s.

As for the old hands:
- Lord William Cecil, 1st Baron Burghley is 66 and 11 years away from death, so would happily serve James as he has Elizabeth, after all, same as his son, Robert Cecil did for James in OTL. While in 1589, Robert is a young, 26 year old, learning the ropes from his father and other courtiers.
- Spy master, Francis Walsingham, worked to bring Scotland and England together before his OTL death in 1590, so should be happy to sort out as much as he can in his final year, although his ability to secured the execution of Mary, Queen of Scots
 
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