Eleanor of Aquitaine, Queen of Castile - a Pre TL Help Thread

[Der Preußische Leutnant]

So after months of scrolling through TLs, I have decided to take the daunting task of writing one myself, plus I've always liked a good Castile/Spain screw and there's simply not enough of those around

Basically I wanted to have Aquitaine, either by direct political or dynastic control, to be under the Castillian Monarchs, through marriage to Eleanor. Which leaves a POD sometime before 1137 or after 1152, and the lucky groom to be as Fernando, Alfonso, or Sancho, depending on the time period.

My idea was to have Fernando mary Eleanor in 1152. (This would make sense for Eleanor as Fernando did not have a title higher than hers, yet, and was not ruler of some other kingdom, yet.) Soon Alfonso would die, and Fernando and Eleanor would be the proud owners of Galicia, Leon and, most likely, a Male heir. Then maybe Sancho III dies on schedule (with he and Blanche not having any children) Eleanor and Fernando go marching into Toldedo becoming the monarchs of one of the most powerful kingdoms at the time

Bit of a stretch, but hopefully not too improbable. Of course I'm open to suggestions, comments, critiques as I'm not trying to have an Über-butterfly TL. Any thoughts?

(Oh and some resources for research would be helpful)

 

[Der Preußische Leutnant]

No bites? I KNOW there are plenty of people who know far more than I do on the site....sigh.

Oh, well allow me to ramble for a little bit.

So in OTL Eleanor married her third cousin, Henry of Anjou (Later Henry II of England) on the 18th of May, 1152, two months after divorcing Louis VII. Now obviously the marriage had been planned for sometime and a Castillian match would be out of the question, for now.

So I began to use my noggin and I came up with a possibility. Henry of Anjou had chosen to cross the English Channel in Winter of 1153, with mercenaries and a fleet of ships to take the English Crown, and had to brave the winter storms (while Eleanor was pregnant). So how about this, Henry dies crossing the channel, and Eleanor gives birth to a girl, leaving her a widow with a child whose father is unknown

I think that scenario would be interesting as while a girl can inherit Aquitaine (as seen by existance of Eleanor of Aquitaine) I dont believe Henry and Eleanor made their marriage public. Thus Eleanor has three options with a surviving girl A) acknowledge her has Henry's B) declare her a bastard or C) say the father is someone other than Henry, though I dont know who would accept that responsibility. It also leaves the door open for a Blesevin England.

Any thoughts?

 

[Fernando III]

No bites? I KNOW there are plenty of people who know far more than I do on the site....sigh.

Oh, well allow me to ramble for a little bit.

So in OTL Eleanor married her third cousin, Henry of Anjou (Later Henry II of England) on the 18th of May, 1152, two months after divorcing Louis VII. Now obviously the marriage had been planned for sometime and a Castillian match would be out of the question, for now.

So I began to use my noggin and I came up with a possibility. Henry of Anjou had chosen to cross the English Channel in Winter of 1153, with mercenaries and a fleet of ships to take the English Crown, and had to brave the winter storms (while Eleanor was pregnant). So how about this, Henry dies crossing the channel, and Eleanor gives birth to a girl, leaving her a widow with a child whose father is unknown

I think that scenario would be interesting as while a girl can inherit Aquitaine (as seen by existance of Eleanor of Aquitaine) I dont believe Henry and Eleanor made their marriage public. Thus Eleanor has three options with a surviving girl A) acknowledge her has Henry's B) declare her a bastard or C) say the father is someone other than Henry, though I dont know who would accept that responsibility. It also leaves the door open for a Blesevin England.

Any thoughts?

I doubt that a prince would marry a woman who had a bastard daughter.
In the treaty of Sahagun Sancho and Ferdinand agreed that if any of them died in battle against the muslims the other would inherit his brother's kingdom so you have a good start there for an early unification of Leon and Castile. IRL Sancho had a son and he inherited the crown in 1158 but you (btw Alfonso his son was one of the greatest monarchs in Spanish history) can butterfly this away easily.
As for the marriage with Leonor. It would be a bit hard as the Spanish kings were more focused on Iberia than on anything else. All of Fernando's wifes were powerful nobles or princess for Iberia and marrying a widow would be a bit of an stretch for a young king/prince but you can make it work if something very tempting is offered to Alfonso ( Fernando's father) making him arrange the marriage early on. Fernando didn't marry anyone until 1165 so there is a window big enough for Eleonor to marry him.
So my input on this OTL would be
1. Early talks with Alfonso. Alfonso was half french this could have smoothen things up. An Aquitanian contingent for fighting muslims would be a good start to create a bond
2. Butterfly Alfonso or carry out the treaty of Sahagun
This way you have an early crown of Castile (or empire of León) with Eleonor in the mix. If you want it to remain together you should make them have 1 kid only as in that time it was a tradition to split the kingdoms in Spain until the tradition was removed by Ferdinand the III

 

[Der Preußische Leutnant]

I doubt that a prince would marry a woman who had a bastard daughter.

Makes sense for the time period but ambition has a way of glossing over things. Although, from what I've learned about Fernando, he was never an extremely ambitious man so I'll have to change that maybe.

In the treaty of Sahagun Sancho and Ferdinand agreed that if any of them died in battle against the muslims the other would inherit his brother's kingdom so you have a good start there for an early unification of Leon and Castile. IRL Sancho had a son and he inherited the crown in 1158 but you (btw Alfonso his son was one of the greatest monarchs in Spanish history) can butterfly this away easily.

I remember reading a bit about the treaty earlier in my research and hence why I mentioned Sancho III dying without children and Eleanor and Fernando getting Castile. I also learned that Sancho up and spontaneously died not too long after the treaty.

Somewhat ironically, I would also be butterflying the greatest King of England (Richard Cœur de Lion) in the process .

Hmm, so an earlier marriage would be best? Okay....... Not to disagree with you on the subject (because in reality I dont know much about Mediaeval Europe) but there lies a few problems.

By the time Fernando was born on 1137, Eleanor was either months away from becoming Queen of France or already was, which certainly is not enough time to change the decision of William X of Aquitaine, assuming he was still alive and willing to betroth his 15 year old daughter, heir apparent to Aquitaine, to a month old baby.

The perfect scenario was to have one of the Castilians betrothed to Eleanor before she became heir apparent and a vital asset so it would be easier to get her betrothed to someone other than Louis. When William (her brother) dies, Eleanor and her husband become the next in line for Aquitaine. The next problem is that the only Castilian who would be to do this in RL would be Alfonso but he was married at the time and if I butterfly his marriage to (Berengaria I think) both Sancho III and Ferdinand II would not exist.

Ugh

So how about this:

The future William XI (Eleanors brother) doesnt die in 1130 and Eleanor isnt as important early on, yet, as she was in OTL. William X has more life in him, so he dies in 1142. In 1138, Alfonso VII and William X agree to marry Eleanor to Ferdinad, (as Sancho would be betrothed to a powerful Castilian noblewoman or from neighboring Iberian state) in exchange for support against the Muslims in the south. In 1142, William X dies and the Duchy of Aquitaine goes to William XI (who would need a Regency of some sort ) then William XI dies in an accident of some kind, childless. The next in line would be Eleanor and her children with Fernando.

Ok. So somewhat ironically, Castile and Aquitaine could see a repeat of the Anarchy with Empress Matilda in England. And assuming Fernando marries Eleanor when he's 15, Eleanor would be 30 (or 28 if you're using the 1124 date) and it would be roughly the same time as the divorce with Louis in OTL.

Whaddya think? ( BTW I'm open to any suggestions for scenarios so the one I mentioned is not set in stone)

 

[Der Preußische Leutnant]

Could Alfonso make the deal with William X of Aquitaine, like an IOU, anyway? Like "Save your daughter for the time my second son is born"? I would think the deal would be rather flimsy if you ask me but, again, I don't much about the mediaeval period so it could've been really common and I wouldn't know.

 

[kasumigenx]

I think Ferdinand II can marry Eleanor of Aquitaine if Henry II is already married to Mary of Boulogne in exchange for peace.

 

[Fernando III]

Makes sense for the time period but ambition has a way of glossing over things. Although, from what I've learned about Fernando, he was never an extremely ambitious man so I'll have to change that maybe.



I remember reading a bit about the treaty earlier in my research and hence why I mentioned Sancho III dying without children and Eleanor and Fernando getting Castile. I also learned that Sancho up and spontaneously died not too long after the treaty.

Somewhat ironically, I would also be butterflying the greatest King of England (Richard Cœur de Lion) in the process .

Hmm, so an earlier marriage would be best? Okay....... Not to disagree with you on the subject (because in reality I dont know much about Mediaeval Europe) but there lies a few problems.

By the time Fernando was born on 1137, Eleanor was either months away from becoming Queen of France or already was, which certainly is not enough time to change the decision of William X of Aquitaine, assuming he was still alive and willing to betroth his 15 year old daughter, heir apparent to Aquitaine, to a month old baby.

The perfect scenario was to have one of the Castilians betrothed to Eleanor before she became heir apparent and a vital asset so it would be easier to get her betrothed to someone other than Louis. When William (her brother) dies, Eleanor and her husband become the next in line for Aquitaine. The next problem is that the only Castilian who would be to do this in RL would be Alfonso but he was married at the time and if I butterfly his marriage to (Berengaria I think) both Sancho III and Ferdinand II would not exist.

Ugh

So how about this:

The future William XI (Eleanors brother) doesnt die in 1130 and Eleanor isnt as important early on, yet, as she was in OTL. William X has more life in him, so he dies in 1142. In 1138, Alfonso VII and William X agree to marry Eleanor to Ferdinad, (as Sancho would be betrothed to a powerful Castilian noblewoman or from neighboring Iberian state) in exchange for support against the Muslims in the south. In 1142, William X dies and the Duchy of Aquitaine goes to William XI (who would need a Regency of some sort ) then William XI dies in an accident of some kind, childless. The next in line would be Eleanor and her children with Fernando.

Ok. So somewhat ironically, Castile and Aquitaine could see a repeat of the Anarchy with Empress Matilda in England. And assuming Fernando marries Eleanor when he's 15, Eleanor would be 30 (or 28 if you're using the 1124 date) and it would be roughly the same time as the divorce with Louis in OTL.

Whaddya think? ( BTW I'm open to any suggestions for scenarios so the one I mentioned is not set in stone)

I think it is a bit of an stretch. A king needed a fertile wife and a 30 years old women wouldn't be a logical choice for Fernando. On the other hand Alfonso became a widow in 1152 and could marry her instead of Riquilda. Then you make the couple have a son and you could kill of both Sancho and Fernando