Eisen, Blut und Fernhandel -German Unification in the 1860s
- Thread starter Beer
- Start date
This explanation is partially wrong. He did not ask others to help him to get CalBear removed from being a moderator, he simply wrote that he got kicked for reasons he believed to be unfair.
EDIT: I've read parts of the discussion in the Hall of Infamy, and must revise my opinion about Beer. He really comes across as nationalistic and a Nazi apologetic. It is truly a shame that such things still exists. But in one case he was right, not all German soldiers on the eastern front participated in war crimes, but the Wehrmacht was really not as clean as the veterans told everybody after the war.
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Deimos
Banned
Too bad that he got himself banned. He did argue hotheadedly and squandered what valid points he might have had.
But I will actually miss his nationalism as it manifested in his timelines. I think it is interesting to see the tonal differences and focus points between the authors on this website who are on different sides of the political or cultural spectrum.
But I will actually miss his nationalism as it manifested in his timelines. I think it is interesting to see the tonal differences and focus points between the authors on this website who are on different sides of the political or cultural spectrum.
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Tyr Anazasi
Banned
I got notice, that Wolf will continue this TL as well.
Some remarks:
I did defend Beer as I was convinced CalBear did something rassistic. My opinion did not change. I did it on my very own. Beer was in no way involved with that, I only hoped to help a friend.
Also I can't see anything apologetic or nationalistic in Beer's comments. And thus I see his ban as not justified.
This is my very last public comment to this topic.
Some remarks:
I did defend Beer as I was convinced CalBear did something rassistic. My opinion did not change. I did it on my very own. Beer was in no way involved with that, I only hoped to help a friend.
Also I can't see anything apologetic or nationalistic in Beer's comments. And thus I see his ban as not justified.
This is my very last public comment to this topic.
Tyr Anazasi
Banned
From Beer via E-Mail:
I personally still fail to see nationalism or even nazism in his posts.
I personally still fail to see nationalism or even nazism in his posts.
Sorry, but some of his posts in the Hall of Infamy did come across as both nationalistic and Nazi-apologetic. It does not matter that other posts tried to correct the erroreous point of view of CalBear & Co. But there are some post which can and hade been interpreted as against the rules. And when even some one who initially was on his side (and also is German) notices this after reading those posts, then he has a serious problem.
It is also true that both American and British tend to generalize in the matter of World War II (but not only World War II but also World War I). And it is easily explainable: for the British it was their last moment of greatness and for the Americans it was the last war which they won without making things worse. You can that there is something wrong, if hundreds of (new!) books about World War II are published every year in the UK, if people there still believe that Germany is the only nation responsible for World War I (an opinion no serious historian can support today), if a small group of people demonstrating against fugitives and asylum-seekers (PEGIDA) is the reason to say that Germany shows again its true colors, etc.
It is very sad that there are still too many who reduce German history to those twelve years of Infamy. Do we reduce the history of France to the Reign of Terror? Or the History of Russia to the rule of Stalin? Or the history of the US or the UK to the black spots in their history? As far as I know the answer is no. But why Germany? Is it because of the Facination of Evil? Is it because ... ? I really don't know.
I am pretty certain that at least 50% of the ban resulted from Beer's command of English IMHO. He was/is simply lacking the necessary linguistic powers ro bring across his absolutely valid POV which is, as I understood it, that saying every single German or Japanese serviceman of WW2 was a war criminal is complete and utter nonsense (and which is a view that speaks volumes about those holding them) as opposed to the absolutely correct view that the Wehrmacht as an institution was beyond redemption...there simply wasn't enough nuance in Beer's words.
And CalBear was being, well, wrong with the justification of the kick that finally resulted in the ban. I was one of those who reported him for that. And I would do so again.
And for the record:
I agree! Additionally, that joking and kicking the corpse that was going on in the HoI after the ban was disgraceful.
And CalBear was being, well, wrong with the justification of the kick that finally resulted in the ban. I was one of those who reported him for that. And I would do so again.
And for the record:
I agree! Additionally, that joking and kicking the corpse that was going on in the HoI after the ban was disgraceful.
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Please can we put that to rest.
I have read too much already of this.
Could we agree on that The Reich and by extension the Reichs organisations (including the Heer as part of teh Wehrmacht) committed not only war crimes, but also crimes against humanity. Can we further agree that organisations need people to actually commit those crimes. But please could we also agree that the fact to be a soldier in the Wehrmacht (or the IJA/IJN) is not a war crime in itself. Only the actions of an individual determine if he is a (war) criminal or not.
I have read too much already of this.
Could we agree on that The Reich and by extension the Reichs organisations (including the Heer as part of teh Wehrmacht) committed not only war crimes, but also crimes against humanity. Can we further agree that organisations need people to actually commit those crimes. But please could we also agree that the fact to be a soldier in the Wehrmacht (or the IJA/IJN) is not a war crime in itself. Only the actions of an individual determine if he is a (war) criminal or not.
Oh... that kick was so strange and the ban was based in the kick, so it should not have happened. It was even done a good defense in relation to the rules by Samuel in the first pages.
Tyr Anazasi
Banned
The ban was against the rules. But what to do, if the mods don't care the rules? Or better do so only, when they please them.
Wait? Beer got banned? I thought he got only kicked again
Either him or someone else demanded that Calbear be banned. Things spiraled predictably from there.
Also, I'm not sure that continuing to post Beer's posts after his ban is allowable. I think it might count as circumventing a ban, which is against the rules.
I dunno, MarshalBraginsky's TL was being regularly updated from the grave after he got banned, and Maverick's Superpower Empire story on Japan is being reposted with the approval of Hendryk.
Huh, I didn't realize that was happening for those timelines. I guess I was wrong about that.
Is what Tyr did there ok though? Using his account to give Beer an ability to reply to posters.
I'm rather honestly curious.