Effects on Canada if the UK never enters WWI?

[InvaderX]

Whats up guys, I'm pretty new to this forum but I've lurked for a while. I'm Canadian, and I have to do a project for English class for Remembrance Day relating to WWI, stuff like "what if a soldier hadn't died in WWI, what would he live to see" etc. I decided to do "what if Canada wasn't in the war at all".

Obviously this would require Britain not entering the war. I think a PoD of Germany never invading Belgium would be enough for that, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong there.

To get it started off I think it would probably result in a fairly different Canadian identity, more dependency on Britain (As, presumably, the British Empire will remain mostly intact), and perhaps less rights for women. I do have to say though that I'm not a massive history buff (especially not Canadian history) so my knowledge of what effect the war had on Canada is fairly limited.

Thanks guys!

 

[Praeses]

A Britain that decides not to fight WW I would most likely be more inwardly focused, especially given OTL problems with Home Rule in Ireland and the upcoming question of India. The Commonwealth would most likely be linked together stronger with possible eventual Federation (of the white Dominions) as Britain needs to look somewhere for more military strength/allies and the Dominions are a logical place to develop it in light of a stronger Germany after its victory in WW I.

Ofc WW II may be butterflied away and as the divergences increase it becomes pretty hard to predict what else what happen.

 

[Old Airman]

Well, Montreal would remain THE center of everything to begin with. Toronto would never raise. You see, old "British" (in fact, mostly Scottish Presbyterian) families, who ruled Canada since Colonial times, sent their younger generation off to war, to lead attacking rows of Imperial Infantry, where they were promptly mowed down by German machine guns. So, when "fathers" started to die out in 1930-1950, the pendulum swung West. Would "sons" be around by that time, Canada's financial heart would still be in Montreal, as well as HQs of most important Canadian companies. Toronto would be... Well, what Montreal is IOTL. Hugely important, but not THE City.

 

[Kermode]

Two immediate, obvious effects:

1) There will be a slower development of a distinct Canadian identity and distinct government of Canada. It was Canada's huge contribution to, and losses in, WWI that spurred Robert Borden into pushing for a greater recognition and autonomy for Canada-- notably getting an individual seat at the Paris Peace Conference and subsequently the League of Nations. And Borden was a Tory, who was full-throated in his support for the British Empire! Without that, the principles of the Balfour Declaration and subsequent Statue of Westminster (that Dominions are co-equal partners and liable to make their own laws without British interference) will be delayed.

2) Without a Conservative government pushing full conscription, Quebec isn't going to become a Liberal stronghold for a generation. Without that, the Liberals won't have such a stranglehold on federal politics-- meaning plenty more Conservative governments.

 

[atrophy]

Well no ww1 for british might make irelands history alot more interesting to be honest and maybe more peaceful and less tragic. U could write that u could possibly say that at this time you would be considering urself to be a member of the british empire - the most powerful nation in the world/the oldest democracy/the biggest country/the biggest military and so on and not the northern neighbour to america.

Also it might make speed=armor concept not so dead as it was proved to be - the fisher follies of ww1 are probably the most stupid thing that got built that i have ever heard of... ww1 showed that speed+armor is the best combination not one over the other and british were the innovators in carrier aircraft during the war so that might be set back aswell for example - seaplanes might be logical but aircraft landing on ships would have been not done.. U boat menance might be interesting aswell to be honest - they might not develop as much or if they do then the british wouldnt have the instant convoy system thoughts during ww2 for example and what that could have entailed for example .

For canada after the ireland dominion and the india question then im not so sure that british politicans would have had the balls to federate the empire or not especially without ww1 prompting it. Altough the seperation would have been slower and if ww2 happens cause french go revenge mode and british are dragged in for some reason then that could have prompted things.

Personally the aftermath of ww1 for british political classes is the worst example for a democratic empire i can think of - the sheer inertia and trying to do things as nothing ever happened is stupid and cost them dearly to be honest . AS A REWARD FOR WW1 VICTORY THE LOGICAL THING TO CUT OF NATIONALISM IN UR EMPIRE WOULD HAVE BEEN FEDERATION OR OUTRIGHT EVERYONE WHO IS INTERESTED GETS ELECTED INTO F-ING PARLAMENT - THE BRITISH EVEN CONSIDERED THE WHITE COLONIES/DOMINIONS AS JUST OVERSEAS BRITISH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD - i know it was a class thing abit but couldnt they remember that the americans eventually left cause they werent represented in london more or less and not repeat that . The freaking war ending treaty introduced the concept of empires are a horrible idea more or less and the only concivable threat to their interest from the outside could only be french/america .

And british attidudes to america after the war were outright criminal for the british stategic interests to be honest - the anglo-japenese treaty was canceled cause the americans hinted at the british more or less wich was strange . Hell the japanese were very helpful during ww1 and they even compromised during the peace more or less aswell so they were a natural ally against russia/china/america even in the future in the pacific and they could have stayed a important economic partner with supplying stuff to them and later when japan gets addicted on oil u can go yay another lever to handle/hold them back if needed .On america no such thing existed and they didnt even JOIN THE GOD DAMN LEAGUE OF NATIONS WICH WAS THEIR GOD DAMN IDEA AND NOT EVEN TALK ABOUT A ALLIANCE - THE FREAKING INNOCENCE OF THE BRITISH POLITICAL CLASS ( and consider were talking about the british whos instinct for a very a good reason in europe not to be dominated by one power had been foreign policy FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS!!! - the only war they really lost in their history after 100 years was the american revolution and that was cause they had no allies and europe was against them and again their empire rebelled cause the millions of british overseas had no representation in london)

 

[IndefatigableRN]

Well, Montreal would remain THE center of everything to begin with. Toronto would never raise. You see, old "British" (in fact, mostly Scottish Presbyterian) families, who ruled Canada since Colonial times, sent their younger generation off to war, to lead attacking rows of Imperial Infantry, where they were promptly mowed down by German machine guns. So, when "fathers" started to die out in 1930-1950, the pendulum swung West. Would "sons" be around by that time, Canada's financial heart would still be in Montreal, as well as HQs of most important Canadian companies. Toronto would be... Well, what Montreal is IOTL. Hugely important, but not THE City.

But Toronto didn't surpass Montreal until the Quiet Revolution and the aftermath of the Quebec nationalist movement in the 1970s. Only then did finance move to Toronto and it became 'THE City'...

 

[riggerrob]

WI the Royal Navy's concept remained intact: Colonies send money to Britain. That money buys battleships. In return the Royal Navy defends the colonies.

Without federal Canadian gov't involvement, recruiters would attract the same amount of cannon-fodder during 1914 and 1915. Most of the first and second waves of volunteers were born in Europe (or the British Isles) and volunteered to defend their homelands.
At most, Ottawa would need to pay for railroad cars and troop ships to export these volunteers, who could enlist in British regiments as soon as they stepped ashore in England.
Without massive numbers of casualties, there would be little need for conscription and less friction with Quebec politicians.
Meanwhile, Canadian farmers would be too busy feeding the British Army to allow their sons to leave the farm.
Ross rifles would arm the Canadian Army well into the 1930s.

 

[Anarch King of Dipsodes]

I decided to do "what if Canada wasn't in the war at all".

To get it started off I think it would probably result in a fairly different Canadian identity, more dependency on Britain (As, presumably, the British Empire will remain mostly intact), and perhaps less rights for women. I do have to say though that I'm not a massive history buff (especially not Canadian history) so my knowledge of what effect the war had on Canada is fairly limited.

Well, speculating wildly... One could look at economic consequences.

How much did Canada spend on its war effort? How much was this above the normal government expenditure?

What industrial developments happened in Canada to meet wartime demand?

What industries and communities in Canada enjoyed boom times from wartime spending? Which were weighed down by wartime taxation and restrictions?

What corporations grew or profited, and which were damaged? What about railroads, in particular? (In Downton Abbey, Lord Grantham loses a great deal of money on an investment in the Grand Trunk Railway, which went bankrupt in 1919. The GTR may have been affected by the war.)

Cultural consquences...

During WW I, the U.S. had an outbreak of hysterical anti-Germanism. IMHO "German-American" culture was substantially driven out of the public space; that is, unlike Irish or Italian immigrants, who kept up much of their national culture and preserved a common identity, German immigrants largely dropped theirs.

So - did Canada have a similar outbreak? How significant was the German-Canadian community, and did it also get pushed down?

Prior to WW I, Canada's military history was trivial; during the war, Canada raised a mass army. In post-war Canada, a lot of (most?) adult men had served. In the U.S., veterans' fraternal organizations flourished. Was there a similar effect in Canada?

The U.S. also had a wave of repression against socialists and such who opposed the war, which culminated in the infamous Red Scare. How did the war affect Canada's socialist and anarchist political sector?

Cross-border issues...

Was there emigration to the U.S. to avoid the war (before 1917, obviously)? When did Canada adopt conscription? Was there commercial migration, i.e. businesses relocating to the U.S. in 1914-16, due to war taxes or shortages? Was there any migration of U.S. labor to Canada to fill in for men in the army?


I think that's enough to start with.

 

[NamelesStatistic]

Well, Montreal would remain THE center of everything to begin with. Toronto would never raise. You see, old "British" (in fact, mostly Scottish Presbyterian) families, who ruled Canada since Colonial times, sent their younger generation off to war, to lead attacking rows of Imperial Infantry, where they were promptly mowed down by German machine guns. So, when "fathers" started to die out in 1930-1950, the pendulum swung West. Would "sons" be around by that time, Canada's financial heart would still be in Montreal, as well as HQs of most important Canadian companies. Toronto would be... Well, what Montreal is IOTL. Hugely important, but not THE City.

Not unless you get rid of the whole Quebec francophone desire for Independence. That is ultimately what scared all the corporate offices to Toronto, and the language laws that came in later with Bill101 made it even more difficult for companies to use Montreal as their center. If you want to keep Montreal the dominant business hub of Canada you have to butterfly out separatism and get rid of the language laws so that Montreal is still an attractive city to base their operations for Canadian companies that do business in the rest of Canada and the US.