Effects of the European Defense Community

[Douglas]

The plan called for an integrated West European army, wearing the same uniform and consisting of homogeneous national units of battalion or regiment level.

It appears that the big killer of this plan was its failure in the French parliament in 1954, and that was one with compromises meaning that national units as large as divisions would be homogeneous.

1. What would be required to get the EDC treaty ratified by all of the member states?

2. What effects would this have?

 

[Arachnid]

Zero. France would need to deploy above battalion level units to Algeria and Indochina, either combined Brigades and Divisions including Dutch, Belgian etc. troops go off to die for the French Empire or France reforms French only Brigades and Divisions.

 

[Douglas]

Zero. France would need to deploy above battalion level units to Algeria and Indochina, either combined Brigades and Divisions including Dutch, Belgian etc. troops go off to die for the French Empire or France reforms French only Brigades and Divisions.

Troops raised for extra-European service were to be exempted from inclusion in the European Defense Force.

 

[Lord Insane]

2. What effects would this have?

Well, the European Political Community project would not be abandoned then. I suspect it might still end up failed, but it would be more under its own merits (if the EDC was hard to swallow, the EPC would be even more so, what with its clear federalist and parliamentary tendencies), so to speak, rather than as a consequence of the failure of the EDC.

 

[abc123]

The plan called for an integrated West European army, wearing the same uniform and consisting of homogeneous national units of battalion or regiment level.

It appears that the big killer of this plan was its failure in the French parliament in 1954, and that was one with compromises meaning that national units as large as divisions would be homogeneous.

1. What would be required to get the EDC treaty ratified by all of the member states?

2. What effects would this have?

Well, if it was made lika NATO OTL it might have worked. OFC it should be clearly said that its purpose is to defend Western Europe from USSR, not to defend colonies of some countries. After all, if you can't keep order in your colony- you don't deserve to have it.
So, something along NATO rules, no need really for international units above battalion level.

 

[freivolk]

Integration on Batalloin-level was only in the first plans. After the treaty, the largest national unit was the Division, and integration started at corps-level.
I see two major problems for the EDC: Algeria and DeGaulle.
As long as the War in Algeria last, the bulk of the french Army wouldn´t be integrated. And if DeGaulle still comes to power 1958 and the War still end in 1962, I don´t see him allow a Intergation of the french army in the EDC-forces. On the other side, DeGaulles politic to the EEC was a bit like "eat the cake and keep it". He wanted as least european integration as possible, but didn´t wanted to lose the influence the EEC gave him. So I´m assume his poltics for the EDC will be the same. He will just intergrate a part of the french forces (lets say 4 divions) and will for this allow Germany to nationalise teritorial defence. In the end the EDC-force will be a german Army with some Benelux divions under french commando.

 

[abc123]

Integration on Batalloin-level was only in the first plans. After the treaty, the largest national unit was the Division, and integration started at corps-level.
I see two major problems for the EDC: Algeria and DeGaulle.
As long as the War in Algeria last, the bulk of the french Army wouldn´t be integrated. And if DeGaulle still comes to power 1958 and the War still end in 1962, I don´t see him allow a Intergation of the french army in the EDC-forces. On the other side, DeGaulles politic to the EEC was a bit like "eat the cake and keep it". He wanted as least european integration as possible, but didn´t wanted to lose the influence the EEC gave him. So I´m assume his poltics for the EDC will be the same. He will just intergrate a part of the french forces (lets say 4 divions) and will for this allow Germany to nationalise teritorial defence. In the end the EDC-force will be a german Army with some Benelux divions under french commando.

Hmm, yes, I presume that THIS solution isn't acceptable for the Germanz, so what if evry country had 50% of its forces ( brigades, divisions, squadrons, ships ) designated for EDC, and under joint command, and 50% under national command?

 

[Xavier]

The annoying thing, to me as a European, is that the overall military commander of the EDC would have been SACEUR, i.e., an American.

OTOH, Europe would have an integrated foreign and defence policy by the end of the 20th century instead of still muddling around while getting nowhere.

The problem is getting it to work, I think this requires a more hostile USSR during the late fifties and sixties. Stalin and the Korean War lasting longer as so that the French Parliament votes for it would be a good start.

Organisation-wise I'd say something like all European forces stationed in Germany = direct EDC control, everything else only common procurement and organisation with EDC control only in wartime. (will be hard enough to get that already!)

 

[Lord Insane]

Hmm, yes, I presume that THIS solution isn't acceptable for the Germanz, so what if evry country had 50% of its forces ( brigades, divisions, squadrons, ships ) designated for EDC, and under joint command, and 50% under national command?

It was acceptable. Remember, they have no army at this point, that only ended up being accepted when the EDC fell through... which was not exactly clear to the Germans beforehand (and, after all, it wasn't the Germans that derailed the EDC in OTL).

 

[abc123]

It was acceptable. Remember, they have no army at this point, that only ended up being accepted when the EDC fell through... which was not exactly clear to the Germans beforehand (and, after all, it wasn't the Germans that derailed the EDC in OTL).

Yes, your'e right.

 

[Blackadder mk 2]

This could damage Heath and Wilson if they try to sell the EEC to Britain if it has to come with EDC.

 

[Thande]

This could damage Heath and Wilson if they try to sell the EEC to Britain if it has to come with EDC.

We would probably secure an opt-out, the way we did for anything controversial like the euro or Schengen in OTL.

 

[abc123]

We would probably secure an opt-out, the way we did for anything controversial like the euro or Schengen in OTL.

Hmm, and what about a neutral Germany and Anglo-French led EEC and EDC?

 

[Lord Insane]

Hmm, and what about a neutral Germany and Anglo-French led EEC and EDC?

Considering one of the major impetuses for the EDC in the first place was to give the Germans a way to contribute to West European defence against the Soviets without letting them have a proper army of their own again...