Effects of the demise of the Graf Spee at the hands of a HMS 'Vindictive' Class Light Carrier, and accompanying Cruisers.

Here, the RN by some means manage to have the means to convert WW1 heavy cruisers - well the 7.5"" guns would be odd, into light carriers. They were converted all at once, but one by one over time. By the late thirties, the allocation of new aircraft to thhe FAA wasn't as good as wanted, which meant that the carrier with the South Atlantic group, still had her Blackburn Shark torpedo bombers. They may not have had the range of a Swordfish, but certainly a lot better than the view from a warship's crows-nest!
Hence there the PB was detected earlier, would the aircraft have been spotted - maybe, maybe not, even so RN would be better placed to position their warships, and the carrier to assemble a strike. The first strike only achieved one hit, with no noticeable effect - noticeable that is to the aircraft, but with more aircraft already to go, it didn't long for the first returning batch of Sharks to re-fuel and re-arm.
By the time the next air-strike went in the cruisers were already in the process of lobbing shells at the PB, maybe the was a cease fire, maybe not and the torpedoes went in, with little interference from the PB's flak guns so pre-occupied they already were. This time more hits, which slowed the PB down.
As the cloak of darkness arrived with the River Plate still not in sight, the cruisers were able to mount their own torpedo attack - the 21" packed a bigger punch than the 18" aerial one.
Amongst the lifeboats of survivors were found crew from sunk British merchant ships.

What reaction back at the Admiralty - does the Unicorn get built earlier with more than just the one, to replace these aging ships?
 
I've played with the idea of the Vindictive carriers (or Hermes) against a pocket battleship myself so I understand the attraction, and I have a lot of respect for the Shark. However I think the FAA scored only one hit for every 12 aircraft that attacked German heavy ships at sea, and their score wasn't as good as that against other vessels. As I understand it most estimate that a Vindictive would carry only about 15-18 Sharks and there'd be some out of action after cruising around the South Atlantic. Add on a few planes to keep an eye on the Graf Spee and you'd possibly be looking at only about 10-12 Sharks being able to attack. Depending on the time of day when the Graf Spee was spotted and how distant it was, given the less efficient nature of the Vindictive carrier you may only be able to get those 10-12 aircraft to do one strike, possibly ranged in two strikes of 4-6 a/c. With such small strikes and fairly good weather, the GS may be able to avoid all incoming torpedoes.

From what I know the chances of a recce aircraft hanging around to keep an eye on GS without being spotted are low - it will have to be there for an hour or so before the attack and the GS has lookouts - so the Germans will be warned.

Overall it appears that the probability would be around one hit for each attack by 12 a/c, and given her slim dimensions a Vindictive could not carry many torpedoes and even aviation fuel would be in short supply. There's a good chance of a crippling hit, but IMHO much less chance of GS being sunk.
 
1 - I think the Shark is often overlooked, particularly given it's performance when re-engined with the Bristol Pegasus (which arguably it should have had earlier?).
shark.jpg

2 - There's always the chance of a crippling hit, but note the OP says the final sinking was by 21" torps from the cruiser(s).
 
- There's always the chance of a crippling hit, but note the OP says the final sinking was by 21" torps from the cruiser(s).
Interesting about the Pegasus engine option - wonder what change in performance that gave?

Interested too, in the consequences - does it affect future construction? Light-carriers should have the speed to match those of other warships, Escort- carriers don't need that speed only to have a margin over merchant shipping inn convoy, plus enough to assist take-off.
 
What reaction back at the Admiralty - does the Unicorn get built earlier with more than just the one, to replace these aging ships?
Unicorn was approved and ordered around April 1939 and laid down by June '39, so I don't know that a PoD in December '39 can change much about her getting a sister or anything. Perhaps she enters service faster given higher priority (wikipedia says she was delayed by low priority during construction), but as she's not a strike asset but instead a servicing asset I'm not so sure. Replacing Vindictive-class carrier conversions 1-to-1 would seem more the role of something like an earlier '42 Light Fleet Carrier than a Unicorn, which was a full-sized carrier focused on maintenance of other carrier's airgroups anyway.
Interested too, in the consequences - does it affect future construction? Light-carriers should have the speed to match those of other warships, Escort- carriers don't need that speed only to have a margin over merchant shipping inn convoy, plus enough to assist take-off.
This would be a success for cruiser-fast light carriers, not escort carriers, so I think it would have more impact on that type--I could see the approval of the 1942 Light Fleet carriers moved up from December 1941 to December 1939, which would make them the "1940 light fleet carriers". Assuming a general two-year advancement in priority, those could see most of the class completed more like very late '42 and then over the course of '43 instead of late '44 and the course of '45. OTOH, given the long lead time for that, maybe more conversions or more-commercial new builds like escort carriers also get a dump.
 
The presence of up to 5? light carriers in the RN probably means earlier critical butterflies - that Courageous is not doing ASW patrols but rather one of the ex-Hawkins meets her fate, and that Glorious is not used as a ferry to Norway but rather retains a strike group, and then actually attacks whatever it was that the CAG got court-martialed for not wanting to attack with like three Gladiators and a sausage, and so misses meeting the Twins.

Which means it's likely not Vindictive's Sharks that run in on Graf Spee, but rather is a fleet CV's Swordfish that do the business.
 

Driftless

Donor
The presence of up to 5? light carriers in the RN probably means earlier critical butterflies - that Courageous is not doing ASW patrols but rather one of the ex-Hawkins meets her fate, and that Glorious is not used as a ferry to Norway but rather retains a strike group, and then actually attacks whatever it was that the CAG got court-martialed for not wanting to attack with like three Gladiators and a sausage, and so misses meeting the Twins.

Which means it's likely not Vindictive's Sharks that run in on Graf Spee, but rather is a fleet CV's Swordfish that do the business.
In that vein, would it be plausible for a light carrier to be operating with either Hood and PoW, or the cruisers in the Denmark Straits with the hunt for Bismark? Mostly for the extended reconaissance capabilities, rather than for any attack role. Might that decrease the odds of either Bismark or Prinz Eugen slipping the tails?. Or would the crappy weather in that area have negated any utility of the aircraft as spotters?
 
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In that vein, would it be plausible for a light carrier to be operating with either Hood and PoW, or the cruisers in the Denmark Straits with the hunt for Bismark? Mostly for the extended reconaissance capabilities, rather than for any attack role. Might that decrease the odds of either Bismark or Prinz Eugen slipping the tails?. Or would the crappy weather in that area have negated any utility of the aircraft as spotters?
OTL it was ASV Mk 2 radar in a Swordfish from Ark Royal that found Bismarck for the golden BB torpedo, so if the weather is not too rough for flight ops at all, it will help to trail Lutjens if Holland has a carrier at the Denmark Strait.
 
@e of pi - Thanks. Surprised Argus wasn't used as a 'service carrier' and use the more modern Unicorn for front-line duties. Either way, you have the ten ships of the Colossus Class, followed by six ships of the Majestic Class.

Argus - 14,000 tons, 20,000SHP 20.25 knots & 20 aircraft - Dec. '17
Unicorn 14,750 tons, 40,000SHP, 22 knots & 35 aircraft - Nov. '41
Colossus 13,350 , 42,000SHP, 25 knots & 48 aircraft - Sept. '43 - May '44
Majestic - 14,000 tons, 42,000SHP & 34 aircraft - Sept. '44 - Sept. '45
HTHs
 
@e of pi - Thanks. Surprised Argus wasn't used as a 'service carrier' and use the more modern Unicorn for front-line duties. Either way, you have the ten ships of the Colossus Class, followed by six ships of the Majestic Class.

Argus - 14,000 tons, 20,000SHP 20.25 knots & 20 aircraft - Dec. '17
Unicorn 14,750 tons, 40,000SHP, 22 knots & 35 aircraft - Nov. '41
Colossus 13,350 , 42,000SHP, 25 knots & 48 aircraft - Sept. '43 - May '44
Majestic - 14,000 tons, 42,000SHP & 34 aircraft - Sept. '44 - Sept. '45
HTHs
She was used as needed in the frontlines for a period though:
I suppose the need for her support capabilities were more important after a certain point.
 
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