Don't You Know That Cotton's King!: Redux TL

[herricks]

Another Year Gone By

Following the near disastrous Peninsular Campaign General McClellan would be relieved of his command on June 9,1862. In his place President Lincoln named Major General Ambrose Burnside as the Army of the Potomac's new commander. General Burnside sought to move quickly with the Unions superior manpower to defeat the Army of Northern Virginia & take Richmond. On June 15 General Burnside & his army crossed the Potomac ready to fight. On June 21 the General Lee set out with Army of Northern Virginia to take on Burnide and the Army of the Potomac. A week later the two armies would meet each other at the sight of the wars first major battle beginning the Second Battle of Manassas.

The numbers of troops engaged in Second Manassas more than doubled that of the first battle with 71,000 Union & 56,000 Confederate troops participating. For two full days the Second Battle of Manassas raged. In the early morning of July 1 Burnside withdrew his army out of Virginia in defeat. The battle made nearly 30,000 casualties, most of them Union, & marked the end of major combat operations in the eastern theater for the remainder of the year. On August 15 the Army of the Potomac received yet another commander, Major General Joseph Hooker. The victories over the Union in the Peninsular Campaign, the Northern Virginia Campaign, and the Second Manassas Campaign brought a sense of national pride to the Confederacy & Lee began planning an invasion of the north. It was his, & the Confederate governments, hope & belief that a decisive victory over the Union on northern soil would finally force Washington to concede defeat and end this war before it became even bloodier.

Since Austria's pro-Allied stance during the Crimean War, relations had been shaky at best. In 1859 however Austria saw itself at war with two of these former allies, France and Sardinia. The war ended in the defeat of Austria and the loss of Lombardy to Sardinia, which would become the Kingdom of Italy in 1861. Now at war with Britain and France once more Alexander II sent delegates to Vienna to meet with Franz Joseph in November. While Russia's navy was formidable it was no match for one, let alone both the Royal and French Navies, and its ships were primarily joining the Americans in attacking commerce. Alexander offered Joseph an alliance to defeat Britain and France and reinstate Austria's dominance in northern Italy. On December 2 Emperor Franz Joseph agreed with the Tsar to put aside past differences and entered an alliance with Russia with the agreement that they would enter the war within three months.

 

[DG Valdron]

Is Russia in a position to join the war? It's recently fought the Crimean War with France, England and Turkey just a few years before - 1853-1856?

Would any of the parties be up for a major conflict? The Crimean War saw the commitment of 400,000 French troops and 250,000 British. It would have been hideously expensive.

So jumping into another major war a mere five or six years later?

 

[SlyDessertFox]

I'll let EnglishCanuck explain:

"The Britannia's Fist trilogy by Peter Tsouras. It spirals out of control in terms of being believable incredibly fast. The Americans can do literally no wrong and despite taking what would be incredible body blows manage to bounce back with an absurd degree of techno-wank and seemingly psychic intelligence officers. Then the Russians throw in on the American side...the blurb for the third book makes it sound even more incredible. "

Kind of like 1862 by Robert Conroy. I like his books, but that one was a wank. Thankfully I know the CSA will win in your TL so I don't have to worry about it

I love this quote from a review:

" Reading the book, I get the feeling the only reason they didn't invent tanks right then was to give the Confederates a sporting chance."

 

[Richter von Manthofen]

WWI 1861-18??

I assume the OE might be a target of Russia while UK/FR are distracted.

GErman UNification is severely delayed. One positive thing is you have just saved Maximilian from a death in Mexico. He might have a "liberal" influence on FJ ...

GErman unification might just be delayed with Russia and Austria getting "closer"... ( actrually I think PRussia is a more likely ally of Russia, but I assume you want a better confederacy, so austria gets again screwed )

 

[frlmerrin]

Dear Herricks,

Well done for trying this time-line but unfortunately it fails more or less from the start. The three biggest problems you have are:

1) Your initial POD does not really change much with respect to the OTL Trent Affair. The key difference is th matter is laid before an Admiralty court. Now the British Cabinet have a choice of how to react, they can either let the matter run its course in the Admiralty courts of the USA and there will be no war because it would be very difficult politically to go to war over the matter if the verdict of the court goes against the British. Alternatively they can simply decide that the enormity of the offence against the Crown is so great that they are willing to go to war if the matter is not resolved to their complete satisfaction as soon as possible. I struggle to see any British PM of the period taking the first course of action it would be both confining and placing Britain under the power of a foreign court. If the Cabinet take the second choice then the schedule follows more or less the course it took in OTL with perhaps a few more days to get Trent to the Hampton roads and for the British to discover what had happened (the news will not of course arrive in Britain on the La Plata).

2) Thus your schedule for British involvement is ridiculously slow and for no good reason you have shown.

British demands presented to USA 18th
Further dispatches sent 28th Dec (why? What are they?)
The further dispatches take 3 weeks to get to USA (on a mail ship! 2 weeks max) presented to USA 19th Jan 1862 (why is Lyons presenting them to Lincoln and not Seward?)
Lincoln rejects British demands 1st Feb! He has been given almost two weeks to respond to this (in OTL Lyons would have already gone home by now).
Again another absurdly slow mail ship and no one uses the telegraph to Newfoundland or Halifax! In OTL Lyons did this all the time. Lincoln’s response to London is delivered on 25th Feb. Over three weeks delay. Again why is Lincoln doing Seward’s job.
At this point the PM Palmerston has to ‘push’ for war? Palmerston can declare war in his own right he only needs to take the majority of the cabinet with him and in this situation when Lincoln has clearly gone insane and hit the ‘suicide’ button who on the cabinet would not vote for war.
In real life the PM would then offer his decision to Parliament for debate, as it is already in session that would probably be the following day not March 2nd.
You then suggest the Royal Navy would not send a fleet until March 5th – Why have they been sitting on their backsides for three months? In OTL the RN’s North America and West Indies Station expanded to police the blockade, expanded again to conduct the Vera Cruz expedition and once more in response to the Trent Affair. By January 1862 they had 38 real steam warships including an ironclad plus support vessels on station. At the naval dockyards of Britain and at Gibraltar they had more than 40 vessels more or less ready to go including liners and the big frigates. They had a further 40 that would be ready to go within six weeks so at the beginning of March in your time line one would have expected them to have around 120 warships on station not just getting around to sending them. By March the RN of OTL were planning on getting the ironclads, mortar frigates and a large number of gunboats and support vessel ready to leave (assuming the USA had not capitulated by then).
Why is a steamer sent to Washington to tell Lincoln he is at war? The procedure is to summon Adams, the USA’s Minister in London to the Foreign Office, read him the declaration of war and then give him his passports and he takes himself off in a neutral or US ship.
You seem to be labouring under two misapprehensions, the first I have discussed, the Cabinet do not need to see Parliament’s approval prior to declaring war. Second, in the mid-Victorian period it is acceptable to start fighting prior to the delivery of a declaration of war.
Why on earth would the British attack Portland Maine on March 28th they have no reason to do so. By March 28th or in a few weeks of that date at most the thaw is on the St Lawrence and they can send troops up to Quebec and Montreal on transport ships. The only reason the British had for wanting to take Portland is that it was the terminus for a feeder railway of the Grand Trunk railway in the Canadas and in mid-winter i.e. Jan/Feb it would have increased the rate at which they could feed troops into the Niagara Peninsula, Montreal and Quebec.

A more realistic time-scale would be:

British demands presented to USA 18th Dec
Rejected between 26-28th Dec Lyons breaks off relations. Telegraphs Quebec, Halifax, St John and San Francisco (problem here I won’t go in to), sends message to RN picket ship off Fortress Monroe for Milne at Bermuda. All theatre commanders have conditional war orders (as OTL).
1st Jan latest - scratch British forces advance to defensive positions across USA border. Contrary to popular perception almost no forces in a position to stope them.
1st Jan latest – British start moving troops up the ice road from Halifax to Canada East.
5-6th Jan latest Milne’s ships from Bermuda attack USN either driving up from the south or going directly to the mouth of the Chesapeake breaking the blockade of the south and bottling up a significant part of the USN in the bay.
11-14th Latest Lyons arrives in Britain and reports to Cabinet.
12-15th Adams summoned to FO and declaration of war delivered.
Available RN reinforcements concentrate and sail for Halifax and Bermuda. Battle fleet at Gibraltar ordered to Bermuda by telegraph.
16th sailing from Vera Cruz Dunlop attacks the Union blockade in Texas and in the head of passes there after.
17th ish Indian Navy and RN East Indies division informed of war by telegraph/boat.
17th ish 2nd wave of army reinforcements due at Halifax.
28th Jan ish RN reinforcements start to arrive at Halifax. If you want to take main you now have the need and resources to do so.
4th Feb Parliament now back in session and ready to debate war.

None of these dates are really affected in anyway by Union activities or counter attacks. Subsequently they may result in disaster if you wish but there is no reason to justify delaying them that you have prevented.

3) You make the British do silly things without a reason.

Invasion of Portland. The pointlessness of this exercise I have discussed but the execution is also poor. Why land marines? Do exactly what the Union did at New Orleans. Put the town under your guns and send an officer to the town hall to demand a surrender.

Why are the British marching out of Portland where they can be supported from the sea? The sole reason for having the place is the railway. The only thing they need to do is hold points along the railway, patrol it and send lots of trains full of soldiers up it IN MIDWINTER not later. You defend it by landing marines along the coast to cut the railway to Boston.

Why have the RN attacked Fortress Monroe before they have all the resources they need to subdue it without difficulty.

How have the USN managed to amass sufficient ships to threaten the RN? Why have the RN even entered the Chesapeake at this point?

Why is the Imperial Russian Navy in NYC a year early? The Polish Crisis has not gone hot and they don’t need to keep their commerce raiders away from the British. In any case as the British have declared war on the USA in your scenario New York is about the last place you would want to send them. Further how stupid does the British commander of the blockading force have to be not to check the ensign on the approaching ships and how stupid does the Russian commander have to be not to fly his ensigns when leaving a blockaded port in a country at war!

I think you had lost the plot by the time you considered the attack on Windsor. By August the British have had almost five months to pour men and arms into Canada West and East. Windsor will be well defended by both regulars and militia/volunteers. They will all be using first class Enfields and even the militia will have had far more practice of shooting than the Union soldiers they face. Britain does not have a chronic gunpowder shortage the Union does. The Union will have run out of rifle-muskets by this stage the Union soldiers will be luck to have a cap-lock musket. The British forces will all be emplaced. Furthermore the British will be using a sizable number of Armstrong guns against a lot of Napoleons and a few rifled ordinance. I am sure that it would be a blood bath for the Union but given the smaller number of defenders no doubt a Union victory.

I have no idea why you think the British army would be so small in August by that point they would have had at least the three OTL contracted waves of reinforcements and then some more. So say 50,000 – 80,000 regulars, 40,000+ Militia in the Canadas, around 30,000 in the Maritimes and two or more battalions of marines(2000) on the lower lakes. In contrast both USA and British planners estimated the best the Union could sustain against BNA was 80,000 more like 50,000. So the British are in defence and have the greater numbers.

Why do the British have a whole army at Toronto? Kingston makes more sense.

WTF are the British in New Hampshire? To what end and purpose?

Why have they not just got on and Burned the waterfronts of New York and Boston and ended the war?

Union commerce raiders? Where will they come from? What will they raid the North Atlantic will be empty of anything but warships and fast transports. In the mid-Atlantic there will be many RN hunting groups. To get out of the North Atlantic the commerce raiders would have to sail between two RN stations one on the slave coast one off Brazil they have but small chance. Then there are ships of the Cape and the Indian, Australian colonial and RN in the Indian ocean. The only place the Union would have a chance of using commerce raiders successfully would be in the Pacific and only if the sent them out right at the beginning of the war.

I marvel at the foolishness of the Russians in your scenario. Really they were not that stupid and would not have declared war on Britain and France they had their economy destroyed by them not ten years ago.

So I hope that lot is some help to you.

 

[herricks]

snip

1.) OTL the San Jacinto first hot across the Trent's bow & then right in front of it before it stopped & after Mason & Slidell were removed the Trent was released. ITTL the Trent was shot by the San Jacinto & disabled, then captured & hauled in as a prize. so yes it varies from OTL.

2.) a hell of a lot of those first two posts were taken directly from the page on the OTL Trent Affair with some edits here & there by me. the timeframe for crossing the atlantic to though i did add a couple days to the voyages to drag it out more

Prince Albert is dead before news of the Trent even reaches London so he can't calm down the situation.

not using the telegraph cable is my fault. i thought it didn't cross the Atlantic til 1868 not 1858.

so its Sewards job to refuse demands that would send the US into war?

if its that big of a deal to you i can have Palmerston just go ahead & declare war

the RN at the time of the affair was actually outnumbered by the union

troop ships with reinforcements also left from Britain & i doubt that Britain just had ships packed with soldiers sitting in port for the off chance a war started. so yes i gave them a couple days

idk maybe London didn't want to weaken their navy in Europe too much

i can change it to them telling the US ambassador. i didn't think of that

i went with troops numbers by what i read that Britain & Canada prepared for during the OTL affair to judge how much they would have at the start of the war.

3.) In order to counter their weaknesses to an American offensive, the idea of a Canadian invasion of the United States was proposed. It was hoped that a successful invasion would occupy Portland and large sections of Maine, requiring the U.S. to divert troops that would otherwise be occupied with an invasion of Canada directed at its east-west communication and transportation lines. Burgoyne, Seaton, and Macdougall all supported the plan and Lewis recommended it to Palmerston on December 3. However no preparations for this attack were ever made, and success depended on the attack being initiated at the very beginning of the war that is taken from the Trent Affair page. the way i read it was British plans were to invade Maine

take Monroe witout difficulty?

the USN wasn't nonn-existant & I would think saving an entire army from annihilation would be of importance enough to rally themselves & try & hold the RN back while the soldiers are saved. ever think that the RN could have misjudged the USN strength in the Chesapeake ?

the Russian navy wasn't a year early. two fleets wintered there in 1861-62 for fear of being trapped in a war with Britain & France.

didn't know mistaken identity couldn't happen in the RN

if you really want a bigger fight at Winsdor i guess i can do something

so your telling me that the US doesn't have the industrial capacity to arm its army?

so the British army is going to leave little troops back in Europe? as earlier i got troops numbers to go by for Britain & Canada from the Trent Affair & just made expansions by my best judgement

capturing Portsmouth & Concord wouldn't hurt public opinion in the US on the war? or force the US to consider diverting more troops from Ontario?

if the Confederacy had commerce raiders i find it hard to believe that the US couldn't have some

so Russia wouldn't want for revenge? the two guard dogs of Europe are now focused on North America & have a lot of resources there. especially with Allies why couldn't they?

 

[herricks]

Pushing the Attack

During the 1862 Congressional Elections a major shift in the seats occurred. After the 1860 elections the Republican Party had held 108 seats while the Democratic Party 45 and the Constitutional Union only 28. The Union had suffered more than 100,000 casualties since the wars beginning and with the near humiliating defeats in Virginia & the war in the west being fought in Kentucky, technically Union soil, public opinion on the war was turning & fast. Britain and Frances entrance into the war had turned public opinion even more, however the British invasion of Maine had garnered some Patriotic support in NewEngland. Following the elections the Republicans would drop 29 seats, the Constitutional Union dropped 3 seats, & the Democratic Party gained 32 seats. While the Republican Party was still the majority seat holder they now only held that lead over the Democrats by two.

Despite having halted the Confederate advance into eastern Kentucky at the Battle of Raywick General Buell was criticized for not following up the victory by not pushing the attack & destroying the Army of Tennessee. On February 7,1863 General Johnston restarted the war in Kentucky by moving to capture eastern Kentucky once more. This time instead of marching on Lexington first, Johnston would move directly on Louisville. Under pressure from Washington Buell would march the Army of the Tennessee out of Louisville three days later. The next day the 55,000 strong Union Army of the Tennessee and the 40,000 strong Confederate Army of Tennessee met just south of Johnston's objective city.

The Battle of Pleasure Ridge began at 1145 on February 11,1863 with the sound of artillery fire. Throughout the day Union & Confederate blood would be spilled across the battlefield. Twice Confederate forces would charge Union lines in attempt to break them and twice the Confederates would fail and suffering large amounts of casualties. One of these casualties was General Johnston's second in command Lieutenant General Braxton Bragg who, after an artillery shell exploded nearby, had his horse fall on top of him shattering his left leg. Though he would eventually recover he would be out of the fight for several months.

The Confederacy wasn't the only one to attack the enemy lines. At 0930, at Lincoln's urging, a mass Union assault would be launched on Confederate lines. Ten minutes after the assault began Union forces were in small arms range & began being raked by Confederate rifle fire. Return fire from the advancing Union soldiers as well as Union artillery would keep enough Confederate heads down that by 0945 the armies were only 10 yards from each other. For the next several minutes a combination of heavy small arms and melee fighting would occur before Union troops began to withdraw. Despite not breaking the Confederate lines Union forces had severely bloodied the rebels and many of Buell's subordinates believed that a second attack with their numbers still, slightly, superior to the Confederates that they could still achieve victory. General Buell however didn't want to risk losing his army & leaving Louisville undefended.

At 1225 Buell ordered his forces to begin an orderly retreat from the field. Johnston didn't press Buell and allowed the retreat. Of the 26,000 casualties that the battle produced over 14,000 were Confederate. General Buell would withdraw first to Louisville and then on February 22 withdraw much of his army and his headquarters across the Ohio to New Albany. On February 28 President Lincoln would relieve Buell of his command and name Major General George Thomas the new commander of the Army of the Tennessee.

Along the northern theater of war things were heating up even more. Both General Rosecrans & Britain's General Burgoyne were rebuilding after the Union's Southern Ontario Campaign however, Rosecrans had a much larger pool of manpower to pull from. In New England General Sherman was on the move. Throughout the rest of Winter the front had slowly been pushed back in Maine with Auburn being retaken in early January. On February 5 Sherman went on the offensive to retake Maine's state capital Augusta. Three days later Union and British forces attacked one another for control of the capital at the Battle of Augusta which ended with Sherman regaining control of the city. With Augusta back in Union control British forces would withdraw from most of southern Maine. By March only Portland, which was held firmly by the Royal Navy & Marines, still lay in British hands. On March 1 General Sherman would officially be promoted to Major General & his force would be renamed the Army of New England.

 

[herricks]

Invasions

Lee had decided to take advantage of the victories the Confederacy had achieved in the Peninsular Campaign, the Northern Virginia Campaign and Second Manassas and take the war to the North. Richmond however had forced him to wait as they hoped that the entrance of Britain and France into the war that Washington would soon agree to come to the negotiating table. That however hadn't happened and with Russia entering the war thereby forcing the European powers to keep a significant force at home so President Davis would finally give Lee the go ahead. With his army being fresh from the winter break Lee began planning his invasion of the North. His goal was to penetrate the major Northern states of Maryland and Pennsylvania and cut off the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad line that supplied Washington. He also needed to supply his army and knew the farms of the North had been untouched by war, unlike those in Virginia. And he wished to lower Northern morale, believing that an invading army wreaking havoc inside the North might force Lincoln to negotiate an end to the war, particularly if he would be able to incite an uprising in the slave-holding state of Maryland.

On February 20,1863 the Army of Northern Virginia crossed the Potomac with 80,000 reaching Frederick, Maryland on the 24th. Lee's specific goals were to advance on Harrisburg, Pennsylvania & cut the east-west railroad links to the Northeast. If practicable this would be followed by operations against one of the major eastern cities, such as Philadelphia. The news of the invasion caused panic in the North, & Lincoln was forced to take quick action. Following his failure at Second Manassas, General Burnside had been in military limbo since returning. Just a week before Lee's invasion President Lincoln had replaced Burnside with Major General George Meade named commander of the Army of the Potomac.

Lee divided his army with General James Longstreet assaulting Harpers Ferry. Harpers Ferry commanded Lee's supply lines through the Shenandoah Valley it was also a tempting target. In the Battle of Harpers Ferry, Longstreet placed artillery on the heights overlooking the town, forcing the surrender of the garrison of more than 12,000 men on March 1. Longstreet led most of his soldiers to join the rest of Lee's army, leaving most of General A.P. Hill's division to complete the occupation of the town. Hooker moved out of Washington with his 87,000 strong army in pursuit, reaching Frederick on February 28. That night the Army of the Potomac moved toward South Mountain. The following morning the small Battle of South Mountain between portions of the two sides armies. While inconclusive the battle succeeded in making the Confederate troops withdraw.

Just under 24 hours later Meade's troops met & engaged General Longstreet's force near the town of Boonsboro. Quickly both sides commanders knew that this would not be another small limited battle. General Lee, who now had the bulk of his army in Hagerstown, headed south to unify the Army of Northern Virginia. General Jackson would take the lead and in a forced march reach the battlefield with his corps in just a few hours. By that afternoon all of Lee's army had arrived and engaged in the battle. The next day would be by far the bloodiest of the battle with Lee launching several attacks against Union lines resulting in horrendous casualties. Again Jackson's corps flanked the Federals and routed the Union XI Corps and further driving back the Army of the Potomac.

In the morning of the third day south of the main battle Major General Jeb Stuart with 8000 Confederate cavalry fought the 10,000 strong Union cavalry force under Major General Alfred Pleasonton outside the small town of Sharpsburg, Maryland. The Battle of Sharpsburg, or Antietam in the North, was the largest predominately cavalry battle of the war and lasted for three and a half bloody hours before, with Union reinforcements approaching, Stuart and his battered cavalry broke loose and withdrew. The battle could only be called a partial Union victory though as of the 6000 total casualties in the battle 3200 were Union and Pleasonton began withdrawing his force back towards the Army of the Potomac.

The Battle of Sharpsburg was the largest part of the third day of the bigger Battle of Boonsboro and the fight was quickly winding down. On the morning of March 5, the fourth day of the battle, Lee and soon later Meade began withdrawing his army from the battlefield and by late afternoon the Battle of Boonsboro was over. The Battle of Boonsboro caused a staggering 32,000 casualties. Of these 18,000 were Union including nearly 1000 prisoners. While technically a draw this battle had stopped Lee's invasion and six days later the Army of Northern Virginia crossed the Potomac back into Virginia.

General Lee's invasion was not the only one to occur in this time frame. On March 1,1863 the war truly became a global conflict when Austria, who had declared war the day before, sent an army of 160,000 into Alsace. In the months leading up to declaring war Vienna had sought to gain support from within the German Confederation. While Prussia and several of the smaller German states declined, the southern German states of Baden, Württemberg, Bavaria, and Hesse-Darmstadt had entered into alliance with Austria and 40,000 of the troops Austria had crossed into France with belonged to these states.

By the time of the invasion France had anticipated Austria's entrance into the war for weeks and the French Army in Europe had been mobilized to 400,000 along it borders with Italy and Germany. The first engagement in the European theater of the war came, a day after Austria first crossed the border, at Strasbourg where 110,000 French soldiers engaged the Germans. The Battle of Strasbourg dwarfed the battles being fought on the other side of the Atlantic and after suffering 18,000 casualties the French withdrew. The next week had German forces making their way through Alsace & winning a number of small engagements against the French. On March 10 however French forces attacked the Germans& would deliver them a defeat at the Battle of Wörth.

The defeat at Wörth forced the Germans back and gave the French a needed rest. While they had checked the German advance at Wörth France was in trouble. A Russian army of over 200,000 crossed into Austria on March 8 & began moving to join the fight in western Europe. Napoleon III called for assistance from his ally Britain. Though they were fighting the Americans in Canada London knew that a decisive defeat of France would tip the balance of power against it and doubted that Britain could return the balance alone. On March 14 Lord Palmerston pledged British support on the continent & declared war on Austria. An expeditionary force of 80,000 was prepared to cross into France and the Royal Navy soon began moving into the Adriatic.

Paris would also gain an ally to the south. Though the secret treaty he had made in the Second Italian War of Independence to withdraw from the war had caused outrage among the Sardinian's Napoleon turned to the new Kingdom of Italy for assisting pledging not to enter into a separate peace until the Italians took Venetia. On March 25 the Italian government signed a treaty with Paris & began mobilizing its army. On April 8 Italy declared war on Austria.

 

[Not Henry G.]

Nice, we have a legitimate World War now, with fighting on both Europe and North America. Is Mexico being invaded on this TL? Because that would make the war even more fun.

BTW Germany didn't exist yet, it was Prussia and the smaller nations

 

[herricks]

Nice, we have a legitimate World War now, with fighting on both Europe and North America. Is Mexico being invaded on this TL? Because that would make the war even more fun.

BTW Germany didn't exist yet, it was Prussia and the smaller nations

Yes Mexico has but as of right now it's basically otl minus Maximilian.


Oh I know it hasn't but if it was more than once German state that was involved in whatever I'm taking about I just say Germans to cover them all

 

[Not Henry G.]

Yes Mexico has but as of right now it's basically otl minus Maximilian.


Oh I know it hasn't but if it was more than once German state that was involved in whatever I'm taking about I just say Germans to cover them all

Cool, I'd love to see a bit on Mexico. And that makes sense, you can also use German States or something to avoid any angry posts

 

[herricks]

Cool, I'd love to see a bit on Mexico.

I'm trying to decide who to put on the throne since a hapsburg is out of the question

 

[Darth_Kiryan]

With France having her nearly entire border in europe aflame, with Prussia, Austria and Russia bearing down upon her, its doubtful that she would send much aid to the CSA.

Hell, France recalled all of her troops in the years before the Franco-Prussian war because of Prussian militancy. At the moment unless her border is literally secured, Nappy III's plans for Mexico will have to be on hold. its most likely that the British will have to take the brunt of the war on.

That said, Nappy III is not his uncle.

 

[herricks]

With France having her nearly entire border in europe aflame, with Prussia, Austria and Russia bearing down upon her, its doubtful that she would send much aid to the CSA.

Hell, France recalled all of her troops in the years before the Franco-Prussian war because of Prussian militancy. At the moment unless her border is literally secured, Nappy III's plans for Mexico will have to be on hold. its most likely that the British will have to take the brunt of the war on.

That said, Nappy III is not his uncle.

Umm Prussia and most of the German states haven'tjoined the war

 

[iddt3]

This is the first time I've heard of 67Tigers . I found it and I'm gonna start reading it. No, the one I meant was by He Who Shall Not Be Named.

What fun are you talking about, by the way?

67th Tigers was a combination of McClellan booster, Lincoln hater, and Southern Apologist. It made for strange TLs.

 

[Darth_Kiryan]

Umm Prussia and most of the German states haven'tjoined the war

Huh!

Invasions

While Prussia and several of the smaller German states declined, the southern German states of Baden, Württemberg, Bavaria, and Hesse-Darmstadt had entered into alliance with Austria and 40,000 of the troops Austria had crossed into France with belonged to these states.

Oh! Whoops. My bad.

Considering that your last post said "Germany/Germans" half a dozen times, i guess it got lost in translation. Still, i do find that rather strange that Prussia is not attempting to fight France in any way whilst it is distracted - it is the ideal time - hell it is the perfect time actually.

The only reason i can see this being otherwise is if you have a Prussia-France alliance. Prussia/NGC takes down Austria now as it is weakened and establishes an earlier control over Germany.

 

[herricks]

Considering that your last post said "Germany/Germans" half a dozen times, i guess it got lost in translation. Still, i do find that rather strange that Prussia is not attempting to fight France in any way whilst it is distracted - it is the ideal time - hell it is the perfect time actually.

The only reason i can see this being otherwise is if you have a Prussia-France alliance. Prussia/NGC takes down Austria now as it is weakened and establishes an earlier control over Germany.

I've just been dating German to avoid writing out 50 different German states every time I say what a group of them are doing


As for Prussia well I've not decided what side I want them on. The way I see it is that they'll be fighting two great powers either way so they'd probably wait to see who seems weaker. Our see which side will give them the most

 

[Admiral Halsey]

I've just been dating German to avoid writing out 50 different German states every time I say what a group of them are doing


As for Prussia well I've not decided what side I want them on. The way I see it is that they'll be fighting two great powers either way so they'd probably wait to see who seems weaker. Our see which side will give them the most

Honestly they'd side with Russia and Austria so they can attack France while it's distracted. That alliance is unstoppable on the continent and might even draw the British out of North America.

 

[herricks]

Honestly they'd side with Russia and Austria so they can attack France while it's distracted. That alliance is unstoppable on the continent and might even draw the British out of North America.

Then they have the royal navy to deal with though. Also with Austria not knocked out of the dominant German power status before hand how could the war with France unify Germany under Prussia?

 

[herricks]

The Ridge

The Louisville Campaign began on March 10,1863. Opening moves of the campaign wouldn't begin on land but instead on the water. While the Royal & French Navies controlled the ocean, most of their vessels couldn't sail far up river and so the riverine portion of the naval war remained almost solely a Union Confederate fight. For the first time the Confederate river navy went on the offensive & sailed into the Ohio River with 10 cotton-clad steamers & 2 ironclads under the command of Commander Catesby ap Roger Jones. Since Forrest had burned the town, Cairo's batteries had only partially been repaired & the warships quickly destroying them. Two days later the fleet was within a few miles of Louisville where General Johnston was soon to begin his assault. The fleets main mission was to assist in the capture of Louisville by blocking Union troops in Indiana from reinforcing the city. Confederate vessels however were challenged by the Ohio River Squadron of 3 ironclads, 10 gunboats, & 4 rams under Rear Admiral Charles Henry Davis. The Battle of New Albany began at 0910 on March 12. As it was more & more the ironclads showed the world that they were the future. Within two hours the battle had came to an end. For the Confederacy eight cotton-clad steamers were either sunk or grounded as well as one ironclad. The Union didn't get away unscathed however, like the Confederacy its wooden ships had suffered heavily. The four rams & two gunboats had been sunk & one ironclad had been grounded after catching fire. All & all their were over 900 casualties during the battle making the Battle of New Albany the deadliest naval battle of the war to date.*

With naval support for the assault on Louisville no more General Johnston would abandon capturing he heavily guarded city. Four days after the Battle of New Albany Johnston settled on a secondary target & the Army of Tennessee moved on the Kentucky capital Frankfort. General Rosecrans had expected Johnston to withdraw from Louisville after the defeat of the navy he had not expected him to change targets. This allowed the Confederate Army to travel over 20 miles before Rosecrans could get his army on the move in pursuit. Over the next week the Army of Tennessee stayed just ahead of Rosecrans as they moved their way towards Frankfort. Finally on March 25 General Johnston turned on the Army of the Ohio just a few miles from their target city. At 1430 that afternoon the Battle of Hemp Ridge began.*

Confederate forces had gained the high ground before Union soldiers could take them for themselves. At 1545 Union forces assaulted the Confederate lines attempting to take the high ground. Confederate troops would fire rapidly into Federal lines for almost 20 minutes before forcing the Federals to withdraw. Two more times Rosecrans ordered his men to assault the rebel lines & on the third try nearly succeeded in breaking the Confederate lines. The next morning the battle opened up again with the two sides cavalry forces striking against one another just a few miles away in the Battle of Mulberry Creek. Here though outnumbered General Forrest's cavalry prevailed in defeating their Union counterparts driving them back behind their lines in less than an hour.*

The cavalry battle was only the beginning of the second day of the Battle of Hemp Ridge. At 1015 a massive Union artillery barrage began & lasting 45 minutes. When the barrage finally ended the Confederates were subject to a massive frontal assault made up of nearly 18,000 soldiers bent on completely overwhelming Confederate lines. The distance that these troops had to cover was long ranging from a quarter to nearly half a mile long. For part of the march these troops were hit by sporadic Confederate artillery fire before getting too close to Confederate lines. By then they were nearly within range of the infantry & soon they were raked by relentless small arms fire. At 1125 the Union forces reached their high water mark with them reaching the Confederate lines in three areas. After 15 brutal minutes of fighting the Federals began to withdraw in defeat. This charge would be the last major action of the battle & on 1530 General Rosecrans ordered the withdrawal. Of the 65,000 Union troops that had entered the battle over 21,000 were killed, wounded or captured/missing. The Army of Tennessee on the other hand had started the battle with 48,000 troops & had suffered almost 16,000 casualties.

Following the defeat at Hemp Ridge the Union Army withdrew back to Louisville. The Army of Tennessee moved into Frankfort the day after the battle had ended & on April 1 General Forrest's cavalry corps captured Lexington. With the capture of Lexington the only major city in Kentucky remaining in Union hands would be Louisville. Two thirds of Kentucky was now in Confederate hands.