Diesel Kriegsmarine

Heinkel He-71 torpedo bomber. Developed from the He-70, the He-71 had a narrower sleeker fuselage and was powered by the Jumo 211J engine with 1,044 kW or 1,400 hp. Further modifications included folding wings and arresting gear. The length of the main landing gear was also increased for improved ground clearance.

The Heinkel He-71 was influenced by the Nakajima B5N2 "Kate" and copied its canopy as well as some other features.

pbPVA9r.jpg


First take on a carrier based torpedo bomber. Suggestions and critiques welcomed.
 

thaddeus

Donor
while a likely candidate for conversion to CVE, my speculation was to use them as seaplane carriers, to quickly supplement their limited number of carriers.

(MY scenario would develop the HE-119, as it could manage 300mph in seaplane version and had long range, and was smaller than some of the planes they handled pre-war on Atlantic crossings)

HE-119 had potential but was dependent on the troubled DB-606 engine, which meant it could suffer from the over heating problems of the HE-177 BOMBER and also could not be available until 1942 to prototype such a plane. Since the main propeller shaft went right though the cockpit , it could mean trouble for the crew.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_119

my understanding the engine installed inline rather than adjacent performed ok? secondly am only speculating about relative handful of aircraft, closer to their restoration of wrecked Allied aircraft or prototyping aircraft than serial production?

the propeller shaft thru cockpit? ... perhaps prayer?
 
my understanding the engine installed inline rather than adjacent performed ok? secondly am only speculating about relative handful of aircraft, closer to their restoration of wrecked Allied aircraft or prototyping aircraft than serial production?

the propeller shaft thru cockpit? ... perhaps prayer?
I have also understood the installation as the problem. Were does the 1942 figure come from? Were does the 300 mph as Sea plane come from (that would be very impressive and effective)?
 
This is very very sleek. Any guesses on performance with 1400 HP?
IOTL the He-70 had a BMW-VI. V-12 water-cooled engine with 740 hp, it had a maximum speed of 195 knots, (224 mph) at sea level. The Jumo 211J engine of the He-71 produced 1,400 hp. The He-71 is sleeker aerodynamically but the He-70 was built to break speed records in the late 1930's and used a type of metal whose name I cant recall at the moment, the metal was very strong but light but because of this material, the He-70 was prone to catching fire when receiving even light MG fire in combat. For this reason the He-70 was retired as a recon plane in 1941.

The He-71 doesn't use that particular light metal but its Jumo engine does produce twice the horsepower of the He-70. I'm not an expert on this kind of thing but the Nakajima B5N "Kate" torpedo bomber had an engine that produced 1,000 hp and had a top speed of 235 mph/ 378 km/h. Using this as a rough guide I would suggest a top speed of 250 mph for the He-71.
 

thaddeus

Donor
I have also understood the installation as the problem. Were does the 1942 figure come from? Were does the 300 mph as Sea plane come from (that would be very impressive and effective)?

"Despite the floats, the He 119 V3 seaplane had a top speed of 354 mph (570 km/h) and a range of 1,510 mi (2,430 km). The V3 aircraft also had a ventral fin added to counteract the destabilizing effects of the floats." https://oldmachinepress.com/2012/12/05/heinkel-he-119/
 

trajen777

Banned
Curious -- as you are developing a truely effective naval arm - it seems like the Fritz X would be a good fit -- Although not active till 43 -- the development started in 38 and test runs in 40 -- seems like this could have been accelerated for a naval arm


Wiki --
he Luftwaffe recognized the difficulty of hitting moving ships during the Spanish Civil War.[2]Dipl. engineer Max Kramer, who worked at the Deutsche Versuchsanstalt für Luftfahrt (DVL) had been experimenting since 1938 with remote-controlled free-falling 250 kg (550 lb) bombs and in 1939 fitted radio-controlled spoilers.[3] In 1940, Ruhrstahl was invited to join the development, since they already had experience in the development and production of unguided bombs.[4]

The only Luftwaffe unit to deploy the Fritz X was Gruppe III of Kampfgeschwader 100 Wiking (Viking), designated III./KG 100; the bomber wing itself evolved as the larger-sized descendent of the earlier Kampfgruppe 100 unit in mid-December 1941. This unit employed the medium range Dornier Do 217K-2 bomber on almost all of its attack missions, though in a few cases toward the end of its deployment history, Dornier Do 217K-3 and M-11 variants were also used. Fritz X had been initially tested with a Heinkel He 111 bomber, although it was never taken into combat by this aircraft. A few special variants of the troublesome Heinkel He 177A Greif long-range bomber were equipped with the Kehl transmitter and proper bombracks to carry Fritz X and it is thought that this combination might have seen limited combat service, at least with the combinations known to have been involved in test drops. It was found the launch aircraft had to "toss" the bomb slightly, climbing and then descending, to keep it in view ahead.[6]

Fritz X was first deployed on 21 July 1943 in a raid on Augusta harbour in Sicily. A number of additional attacks around Sicily and Messinafollowed, though no confirmed hits were made and it appears the Allies were unaware that the large bombs being dropped were radio-guided weapons.[10]
 
Curious -- as you are developing a truely effective naval arm - it seems like the Fritz X would be a good fit -- Although not active till 43 -- the development started in 38 and test runs in 40 -- seems like this could have been accelerated for a naval arm


Wiki --
he Luftwaffe recognized the difficulty of hitting moving ships during the Spanish Civil War.[2]Dipl. engineer Max Kramer, who worked at the Deutsche Versuchsanstalt für Luftfahrt (DVL) had been experimenting since 1938 with remote-controlled free-falling 250 kg (550 lb) bombs and in 1939 fitted radio-controlled spoilers.[3] In 1940, Ruhrstahl was invited to join the development, since they already had experience in the development and production of unguided bombs.[4]

The only Luftwaffe unit to deploy the Fritz X was Gruppe III of Kampfgeschwader 100 Wiking (Viking), designated III./KG 100; the bomber wing itself evolved as the larger-sized descendent of the earlier Kampfgruppe 100 unit in mid-December 1941. This unit employed the medium range Dornier Do 217K-2 bomber on almost all of its attack missions, though in a few cases toward the end of its deployment history, Dornier Do 217K-3 and M-11 variants were also used. Fritz X had been initially tested with a Heinkel He 111 bomber, although it was never taken into combat by this aircraft. A few special variants of the troublesome Heinkel He 177A Greif long-range bomber were equipped with the Kehl transmitter and proper bombracks to carry Fritz X and it is thought that this combination might have seen limited combat service, at least with the combinations known to have been involved in test drops. It was found the launch aircraft had to "toss" the bomb slightly, climbing and then descending, to keep it in view ahead.[6]

Fritz X was first deployed on 21 July 1943 in a raid on Augusta harbour in Sicily. A number of additional attacks around Sicily and Messinafollowed, though no confirmed hits were made and it appears the Allies were unaware that the large bombs being dropped were radio-guided weapons.[10]
IIRC work on remote controlled glide bombs was temporarily halted in 1940 or 41 due to some stupid order cancelling work on all experimental weapons that wouldn't be completed by 1942 when the war was expected to be over by some over optimistic members of the Nazi high command.
Work was resumed on most if not all projects again in 1942 when it was obvious the war wouldn't be over anytime soon.

Was work on the Fritz X not halted in 1940?
 
Elbeübung (Operation Elbe) Part 1, September 24th to 28th, 1941
Elbeübung (Operation Elbe) Part 1, September 24th to 28th, 1941



Key intelligence had arrived in Germany over the last few weeks that caused Elbeübung to be green light. First Prince of Wales in New York and King George V in Philadelphia were still being repaired and would for some time. Second HMS Rodney had arrived in Boston and was now in dry docked for a refit. Third convoys carrying supplies for the Soviet Union were being routed through northern waters. Forth the army had formally requested the navy do whatever it could to cut off supplies to the Soviet Union.



Admiral Lütjens flying his flag from Germany’s newest dreadnought Friedrich der Große set out in to the Norwegian Sea. The German battle group was made up of Bismarck, Friedrich der Große, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst, Graf Zeppelin, Lützow / Deutschland, Admiral Hipper, eight Destroyers and multiple tankers support ships. The sortie would use huge amounts of resources, in particular diesel fuel. A secondary mission was if the battlegroup could break out into the North Atlantic was to refuel from some of the oilers trapped in American and South American ports from the start of the war. The Royal Navy had sunk most of the raider supply network so if the raiders were to stay at sea for a prolonged period of time resupply from neutral ports was the only option.


Over the past few months relations and coordination had improved between the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine. While the Trägergruppe managed to get rebuilt in time for the sortie there was still some friction as Goering made a last moment play to have Trägergruppe 186 and 187 sent to Russia. Some expected Hitler to compromise and split the difference with one Trägergruppe going to sea and one to Russia. Instead Hitler left both with the Kriegsmarine. Peter Strasser wasn’t fully worked up would soon be.



***


On September 26th a BV-138B-1 maritime patrol aircraft made a major discovery in the artic waters. A convoy was near the edge of the pack ice and there were perhaps two to three dozen ships counting escorts. At once the location was transmitted to Battlegroup Lütjens.



***


The commander of Convoy PQ1 had a difficult choice to make as the convoy was a day east of Jan Mayen Island. To keep going would be as fast turning around to return to Iceland. The choice was made to keep going forward. On the 27th not only did another BV-138 float plane return but shortly afterwards first one then two Ar-196 float planes. The captain of the heavy cruiser HMS Cumberland knew his command was in serious danger. The Ar-196 float plans were ship based so one or more Kriegsmarine ships were nearby. Besides his cruiser there were but four destroyers and four mine sweepers as escorts. With a major Kriegsmarine force at sea the convoy was ordered to scatter and proceed independently.


The British heavy cruiser and four destroyers headed South East in the probable direction of the threat. Perhaps it was a cruiser. Less than an hour later the newly installed radar on Cumberland detected multiple surface contacts.



***


Admiral Lütjens had a rare occurrence for Kriegsmarine commanders overwhelmingly firepower and multiple options. Weather was good and so brief thought was given to using Graf Zeppelin to simply smash the British at range but the last sortie had proved the Trägergruppe powerful but fragile so instead the carrier would be held in reserve.



***



Cumberland and her destroyers did something that few Royal Navy ships had to do in the modern era, they turned and fled.


***


Scharnhorst the German cruisers and half the destroyers gave chance while the rest of the German surface ships went hunting. Over the rest of the day German one by one smashed or captured every single merchant ship that made up PQ-1. Thirteen ships totally 60,000 tons loaded with raw materials, tanks and fighters were lost.



By mid afternoon Scharnhorst at last closed the distance and began shelling the British warships. The German destroyers were following along at best speed but had fallen behind. Deciding that escape wasn’t likely the British turned on their German tormentors. The British fought with all of the valor one could expect of the Royal Navy but the Germans had a massive firepower advantage. Twenty minutes into the engagement HMS Cumberland already hit several times was hit by multiple 11” shells and exploded. From the force of the explosion one or more German shells must have found a main magazine.



With the convoy and its escorts dealt with Battlegroup Lütjens formed back up and set course West South West for the Denmark straights.



***



Back in Great Britain news of the destruction of Convoy PQ-1 was meet with grim determination. Home fleet had been organized into two squadrons; one each of fast and slow ships and all sailed for south of Iceland. Long before the latest German sortie changes had been made for the British. At the highest levels of the British government it had been decided to strip other theaters of war to reinforce Home Fleet. There would be no reinforcement of the Eastern Fleet in Singapore and capital ships were quietly removed from the Mediterranean.



On the 28th as Home Fleet set out its core was made up of six battleships and battlecruisers along with three aircraft carriers. It was nothing less than every available ship including HMS Eagle which was about to enter yard hands for a major refit.



To be continued…
 
Elbeübung (Operation Elbe) Part 1, September 24th to 28th, 1941



<snip>


Scharnhorst the German cruisers and half the destroyers gave chance while the rest of the German surface ships went hunting. Over the rest of the day German one by one smashed or captured every single merchant ship that made up PQ-1. Thirteen ships totally 60,000 tons loaded with raw materials, tanks and fighters were lost.



<snip>


To be continued…
How many ships were captured and was anything useful taken?
I see a huge F-ing naval battle in the future....
One can hope. :cool:
 
Roosevelt would NEVER enter the European war until American public opinion changed, which was not until weeks after PH.
 
How many ships were captured and was anything useful taken?

Other than the vehicles, etc and "raw materials" I have no idea what was in the convoy. I did a little random generation came up with the following.

Steel ingots, Molybdenum ore and Copper Wire captured by the Germans.
 
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