Denmark joins Germany in 1865
- Thread starter M79
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You have to get rid of Bismarck for this to be possible, as it thwarts his hopes of annexing Schleswig-Holstein, and and adds another member state to oppose Prussia in the Diet, and perhaps fight against her alongside Austria..
Not necessarily, the original question of Denmark's acceptance would probably need to go before the Diet of the German Confederation and there is a chance it gets accepted. Austria might still demand her slice and go to war *or* the diet offers something in exchange and foils Bismarck's plan for unification, at least temporarily. If he plays his cards well, Bismarck might still be able to maneuver German unification as he wishes. If it goes wrong and the Austro-Prussian war kicks off anyway, it might turn into a pan-European conflict. Bismarck OTL was only just able to stop further expeditions into Bohemia with intention of annexation and a March on Vienna, and if France gets involved it may see Germany shattered. It might also see a Germany united with much different boundaries and toss the entire alliance system as we know it in OTL on its head.
What kind of German unification are we talking about here?
If it's unification under Prussia, with Austria effectively excluded or marginalised, then it cannot happen without war. There is no situation where Austria would accept that without a fight.
Bismarck had a mile-long list of reasons why it was a bad idea, at the top being a real concern about how Great Britain would react from how Germany would suddenly get some very strong naval bases both in the North Atlantic (Faroes, Iceland and Greenland) and to a lesser degree in Caribean (present day US Virgin Islands).
While still at the then current state, it wouldn't be enough to even think of winning a naval war against Britain, it would certainly be enough for the British to be concerned about their hold on the naval superiority, specially if Germany somehow managed to get some more coastland under them (say ... Benelux).
Britain at this point was still one of Germanys primary allies, but this would be the most certain way to make sure that they would start looking after allies that could help neturalize Germany as a growing power
While still at the then current state, it wouldn't be enough to even think of winning a naval war against Britain, it would certainly be enough for the British to be concerned about their hold on the naval superiority, specially if Germany somehow managed to get some more coastland under them (say ... Benelux).
Britain at this point was still one of Germanys primary allies, but this would be the most certain way to make sure that they would start looking after allies that could help neturalize Germany as a growing power
Not sure what you mean by "Germany's primary allies" since there was no Germany in 1865, nor (as far as most people knew) any imminent prospect of one.
If you mean "Prussia" rather than Germany I don't suppose GB would particularly want her in Iceland or the Virgin Is (though the latter could probably be swapped for Heligoland or whatever) but even with Denmark added, Prussia's naval power would be insignificant compared to Britain's so it's not likely that many men in London would worry.
Germany=Prussia in this case ...
Sure, it might not be naval power paid up front (Denmark didn't have the cash nor the will to reestablish a strong navy after 1807), but given the Prussian economy, a Prussian Denmark would suddenly both have the will and ability and cash to hammer out a reasonbly strong navy in a relatively short time, due to several strong places to plant shipyards. Off the top of my hat, Copenhagen, Odense, Aahus, Korsør, Aalborg and Fredericia all have good natural habours and have held large shipyards, and would all be somewhat tricky to attack with naval bombardment as they're tricky to sail to unless you have a good local pilot.
Sure, it might not be naval power paid up front (Denmark didn't have the cash nor the will to reestablish a strong navy after 1807), but given the Prussian economy, a Prussian Denmark would suddenly both have the will and ability and cash to hammer out a reasonbly strong navy in a relatively short time, due to several strong places to plant shipyards. Off the top of my hat, Copenhagen, Odense, Aahus, Korsør, Aalborg and Fredericia all have good natural habours and have held large shipyards, and would all be somewhat tricky to attack with naval bombardment as they're tricky to sail to unless you have a good local pilot.
Sian; said:
Not in 1865. Prussia (as far as outsiders knew) was the weakest of the major powers. Her victory over Austria the following year came as a bolt from the blue.
"Germany" still meant the Confederation, which was a loose association not under Prussian control (or, so far as anyone knew, anywhere near being). And until 1864 the King of Denmark was already a member of it in his capacity as Duke of Holstein. The only change would be that, had his Kingdom also belonged to the GC, he would have been entitled to four votes in the Federal Diet instead of three. Big deal.
As for his navy, he could put that at Prussia's disposal if he allied with her, whether he joined the GC or not. Why should Britain (or anyone else) be concerned merely because Christian became technically a "German Prince" for all his possessions instead of for only part of them?
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In 1865, Germany != Prussia. Denmark asked to join the German Confederation, not to be annexed by Prussia.
Incidentally, when exactly did Christian make this proposal? If it was after the Duchies had been lost (ie in an attempt to get them back) I can't imagine anyone in Berlin or Vienna being interested.