DBWI: What if Vladimir Lenin did not die in 1915?

I have a very scary proposition for you. What if the Russian "communist" (I think that's what he called his dangerous murderous poorly thought out philosophy) activist Vladimir I. Lenin does not die in exile as he did IOTL. Is there any chance that he could escape to Russia and start a revolution? It would definitely be ASB for it to go anywhere though. The monarchy was very unpopular at the time (this was before the great liberal reforms of Tsar Alexei II and his sister and successor Empress Olga) but I'm sure the people would not be foolish enough to support these horrible radicals over them.

If this is to happen (again I think it's ASB but let's ignore that for a second) and the Leninists somehow manage to overthrow the monarchy, Germany would most definitely win the Great War. Just think, the USA, Britain and France would immediately rush to their ally Russia's aid and try to put the Tsar back in power, allowing Germany to regain much lost ground. I even read on some website of a conspiracy theory that Kaiser Wilhelm actually planned to release Lenin to intentionally cause chaos in Russia. This is probably a made up piece of bullshit but still interesting to think about.

Also, if "communism" is ever to become big, what about it's more tamer cousin "socialism?" Maybe it won't fade into obscurity like it did IOTL and might even take form in some countries as the dominant philosophy (I would say Italy would probably be the first to fall victim to this perhaps by the Italian Socialist Benitio Mussolini who could've very well became the Prime minister of Italy if things went differently). Who knows, maybe there could be a major Socialist Party in the US or perhaps even a socialist president opposed to just two socialists ever serving in congress (the case IOTL). What if Germany lost the war like they did IOTL in this scenario (which is even more ASB). Would they get rid of their Kaiser instead of keeping him like IOTL, and maybe also become a socialist nation?

And perhaps instead of ongoing battle between imperialism and capitalism throughout the world there would be a similar one with communism/socialism replacing imperialism? What do you guys think?
 
Just a minor quibble. Socialism is alive and kicking in the UK. We've even had "Socialist" governments such as the Labour Governments (albeit minority) in the late 20s. Even the Liberal Party is socialist according to my American Friends! The Great Stock Market Crash in the late 20s/early 30s meant that there was going to be a counter movement to capitalism. Also remember that Marx predated Lenin's politics and even the Liberal Government of the 1900s introduced things such as state pensions and rudimentary health care!
EDIT shouldn't this be in post 1900?
 
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Just a minor quibble. Socialism is alive and kicking in the UK. We've even had "Socialist" governments such as the Labour Governments (albeit minority) in the late 20s. Even the Liberal Party is socialist according to my American Friends! The Great Stock Market Crash in the late 20s/early 30s meant that there was going to be a counter movement to capitalism. Also remember that Marx predated Lenin's politics and even the Liberal Government of the 1900s introduced things such as state pensions and rudimentary health care!

I meant real "socialism" like the type advocated by Italy's Mr. Mussolini and Eugene V. Debs if you want a true American "socialist." You call the Labour Party "socialism" but really it's just capitalism with more government control of the economy - a mixed economy. The Labour Party is a joke compared to what Lenin and Mussolini wanted to do to the world.

So putting political terminology aside, what do you think would happen if Lenin survived?
 
Vladimir who?

He was a Russian extreme-far-left advocate in the late 19th and early 20th centuries and a follower of the "communist" philosophy created by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels a few decades earlier. He wrote a few books that are studied by political scientists to this day.
 
There was a TL on this website called "The Red Bear Roars" by someone, his Tl was quite extensive, it had Lenin returning to Russia in 1917, sent there by germany to disrupt Keresnky's war efforts. The Germans still lose WWI after US entry, but the Entente is unable to stop the spread of Bolshevism (Trotsky basically runs around the country defeating the disunited Whites and eventually the British, French and the USA pulls out and elaves Russia to it's fate). After a Second Great War between Fascist Germany, Italy and Japan of all nations, against Britian, France, Communist Russia and the USA. After the war, Europe is broken, Germany divided and then there is a nuclear Arms race between the Communsits and the USA. It was pretty well written but the guy stopped writing in about the 1960's during a dispute over Communsit Cuba. :(
 
There was a TL on this website called "The Red Bear Roars" by someone, his Tl was quite extensive, it had Lenin returning to Russia in 1917, sent there by germany to disrupt Keresnky's war efforts. The Germans still lose WWI after US entry, but the Entente is unable to stop the spread of Bolshevism (Trotsky basically runs around the country defeating the disunited Whites and eventually the British, French and the USA pulls out and elaves Russia to it's fate). After a Second Great War between Fascist Germany, Italy and Japan of all nations, against Britian, France, Communist Russia and the USA. After the war, Europe is broken, Germany divided and then there is a nuclear Arms race between the Communsits and the USA. It was pretty well written but the guy stopped writing in about the 1960's during a dispute over Communsit Cuba. :(

I actually read it and it was really good although very implausible in my opinion. I was sad when I saw Al Smith (one of my favorite US Presidents) lose to that loser Hoover. His characters are very interesting especially that Kennedy guy (was that supposed to be Joe Kennedy's second son who died in childhood of the measles?) and that Nixon guy. I was getting excited for 1964 where I was pretty sure Kennedy and Nixon were going to rematch.

World War II was very sad especially the horrible things that Hitler guy did to Jews just because of their religion. :( Good thing we had nothing like that IOTL and only one Great War.

The author is a genius to invent his own political philosophy - fascism (even though this is obviously a horrible idea). Well he really didn't invent it, it was IIRC a term Mussolini coined to describe his style of socialism. But still, like communism he made it into an actually political ideology that a country was run by. The TL was very dystopian sounding to me having all these failed philosophies (i.e. communism, fascism) duke it out and poor democracy marginalized. I would much rather just deal with the old-fashioned democracy vs. monarchy debate we have IOTL.
 
For one thing, there wouldn't be Lev Bronstein's Fourth Concerto (I hear he was pretty radical in those days.)

Yeah, he was a member of numerous socialist parties for a long time, including the Mensheviks, and then the Bolsheviks, before he got into music and renounced his political views (though his biographer states he was a more radical member of leftist parties like the Social Democrats for much of his life even after the Great War, and the number of times bits and pieces of "The Internationale" appear in that particular piece supports this view).
 
If Vladimir Ulyanov lives, is it possible for Joseph Jughashvili to play a role in his 'communist' government? The guy seems kind of crazy. He robbed banks and escaped exile countless times. Any government with him in it would fall apart instantly, there would be no stability.
 
If Vladimir Ulyanov lives, is it possible for Joseph Jughashvili to play a role in his 'communist' government? The guy seems kind of crazy. He robbed banks and escaped exile countless times. Any government with him in it would fall apart instantly, there would be no stability.

You mean Archimandrite Seraphim of Tiflis? Yeah, when he was a kid, he did some real scary stuff, but after his "Damascus Road" experience in that Siberian prison, he became a near saint to the kulaks.

Before he died in 1953, he wrote, "... by our collective suffering, we pave the way for the New Man in Christ."

RUSstalin1.jpg
-- Seraphim as a young scoundrel.

I guess it would depend on what timeframe we're talking about for him to have worked with that squirrel-case Ulanov (Lenin's "real" name.)
 
Lenin would probably have been arrested as soon as he tried to set foot in Russia. Nicky was a fool but there were sensible people in the government whom would have done what was necessary. Mind you did Lenin even have any support in Bolshevik or Menshevik groups? He had been in exile a long time.
 
He was a Russian extreme-far-left advocate in the late 19th and early 20th centuries and a follower of the "communist" philosophy created by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels a few decades earlier. He wrote a few books that are studied by political scientists to this day.

He was not only an extremist advocating taking power by some kind of military coup to be led by a secret paramilitary organization, but also an agent at the service of Germany during the reich.

Germany used him with the goal of destabilizing Russia. And that's certainly why Lenin's murder must have been organized either by the russian intelligence service, or by the french one.

My guess would be for the french since Lenin lived in Switzerland at the time he was killed.
 

Alcsentre Calanice

Gone Fishin'
Maybe anarchism will never rise to power in the east. But I don't think that one little bolshevik fool can stop Kropotkin's and Nestor Makhno's way to power.
 
OOC: You don't know what imperialism is, do you?

OOC: Of course I do. It's just that ITTL, Imperialism has a different meaning: a political philosophy based around a semi-absolute monarchy governed by an Emperor. It's a philosophy that appears in many of my TLs including my future TL. It can be best compared to the OTL German, Russian and Japanese Empires of the late 19th/early 20th centuries.
 
There was a TL on this website called "The Red Bear Roars" by someone, his Tl was quite extensive, it had Lenin returning to Russia in 1917, sent there by germany to disrupt Keresnky's war efforts. The Germans still lose WWI after US entry, but the Entente is unable to stop the spread of Bolshevism (Trotsky basically runs around the country defeating the disunited Whites and eventually the British, French and the USA pulls out and elaves Russia to it's fate). After a Second Great War between Fascist Germany, Italy and Japan of all nations, against Britian, France, Communist Russia and the USA. After the war, Europe is broken, Germany divided and then there is a nuclear Arms race between the Communsits and the USA. It was pretty well written but the guy stopped writing in about the 1960's during a dispute over Communsit Cuba. :(

I remember that TL. It was pretty fascinating, but it was, to be truthful, largely a rewrite of parts of a certain well-known collaborative TL from the early '90s, "As The World Turns"; I've actually personally talked to the guy who wrote "The Red Bear Roars", and he admitted that, although he really liked the original ATWT, he didn't believe that the prevention of Joseph Stalin(the man who became Brother Seraphim IOTL) from rising in the original ATWT was plausible, and that he was kind of sympathetic to the Russian Empire due to his grandparents having been forced to leave during the "Time of Troubles".....this, despite the fact that we were stuck in the Grand Detente with them for damn near 40 years after the Pacific War ended.....until the Empire collapsed in 1989(and Germany would follow in 1991; about damn time.).

(P.S., in fact, the Cold War in ATWT was basically OTL's Grand Detente, just with Communism! Although without Joseph Jughashvili as Premier of the USSR).
 
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Also, if Lenin was able to survive and perhaps take over, butterflies might have been strong enough to prevent the Great Buckingham Palace Fire in 1923 that tragically killed the entire immediate British Royal family causing the late George V to be succeeded by his sister Queen Louise. Therefore we wouldn't have had her daughter Alexandra I, her son Alexander IV, his son that abdicating crook Henry IX or his daughter Alexandra II the current queen. Who would be king or queen then? Perhaps a child of Prince David, the oldest son of George V?
 
Also, if Lenin was able to survive and perhaps take over, butterflies might have been strong enough to prevent the Great Buckingham Palace Fire in 1923 that tragically killed the entire immediate British Royal family causing the late George V to be succeeded by his sister Queen Louise. Therefore we wouldn't have had her daughter Alexandra I, her son Alexander IV, his son that abdicating crook Henry IX or his daughter Alexandra II the current queen. Who would be king or queen then? Perhaps a child of Prince David, the oldest son of George V?

OOC: Does this sound alright to you?

1923-1933: Louise I
1933-1947: Alexandra I
1947-1979: Alexander IV
1979-1990: Henry IX
1990-20??: Alexandra II
 
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