DBWI: what if vinland wasn't as succsessful

[alien emperor]

as all of you know the norse colony of vinland was highly influential to modern day history because the vinlanders introduced cow pox, European livestock and metal weapons and, cause of the introduction of medieval weapons advanced the native civilzations like the Mississippian civilization and, the Aztecs and even the nomadic west, and due to the medieval weapons and the introduction of cowpox this lead to north American civilizations (including the vinlanders) to resist European attempts at colonization and, due to the Europeans not being successful in colonization (except for some islands in the Caribbean) this lead to the scramble of America which was highly contested by the European powers.

so my question is what if vinland wasn't successful either through the first encounter with the natives by lief Erickson being hostile instead of peaceful or the colony failing for other reasons and how would this affect north and south American history.

 

[Zachary Johnson]

Well the native states will probably still survive the European colonizers will probably make more headway inland as the native population has no experience with small pox in this timeline as there is less or no Vinland contact allong with a greater tech disadvantage as they have no draft animals and Norse iron to give them a boost to at the time modern tech levels

 

[LNSS]

The effect the Vinlanders had is very overrated. I think the rise and expansion of the Cemanahuac confederation of city-states in [OTL Mexico] was pretty much inevitable by the 10th Century.

 

[ClockworkDawn]

The effect the Vinlanders had is very overrated. I think the rise and expansion of the Cemanahuac confederation of city-states in [OTL Mexico] was pretty much inevitable by the 10th Century.

Possibly! But remember the effects the plague had IOTL! Destroyed their possible rivals further to the north, and killed a good chunk of their own population. Imagine if the Europeans had shown up then, before the Cemanahuac peoples had a chance to recover their numbers and spread north.

 

[alien emperor]

The effect the Vinlanders had is very overrated. I think the rise and expansion of the Cemanahuac confederation of city-states in [OTL Mexico] was pretty much inevitable by the 10th Century.

yea but without the vinlanders they wouldn't have gotten metal weapons which did give them an advantage against the europeans but, i do agree that the Cemanahuac confederation was highly influencial in Mexican history [i don't know what they would call mesoamerica so i'll just call it mexica]

edit: advantage is not the right word more like it gave the confederation almost middle ground against the europeans

 

[brokenrobot00]

The changes of a less successful Vinland are really immense especially to northern part of the continent. First of all Vinland started and was primarily used as a resource stop rather than a full fledged colony for most of it's early existence. People didn't start living their full time until later on, it was that shift that changed everything in my opinion. Land hungry Scandinavians spilled out of Vinland and would go on to settle the river that the French would later call the St. Lawrence and the Eastern portion of the Great Lakes. The Longboat and it's kin proved to be very well suited for travel on the Great Lakes being able sail the lakes themselves and having no problem moving into the shallower rivers of the area. This transport gave the new group a huge advantage in terms of trade able to move larger quantities than traditional trading canoes and rafts. It also meant they for a time were able to raid and conduct warfare with impunity for a good while. At some point the Sagas state there was a schism between the Vinlanders themselves and both side courted native allies part of that was the spread of technology, livestock, crops, and knowledge. The Western Great Lakes would become dominated by a hybrid Norse/Algonquian Culture a culture that would then spill down the river system often called the spine of the continent, all the way the the Gulf of the Mexica. Nation states were formed and forged together some of them still exist. Even today a great number of peoples trace their lineage back to this period. Even in areas that weren't conquered or brought into alliance with Norse or Norse successor states were heavily influenced, like on the west coast where they use a Runic based writing system. A world with a less successful Vinland is almost unthinkable.

 

[ramones1986]

Probably less genetic presence of the Norse-Vinlanders in the present-day North American populations, particularly Y-haplogroup I1 and R1b.

 

[alien emperor]

bumping this thread