As we all know the Weltkreig was won by Germany, Austria-Hungary, America, Japan, Britain, and Italy... Nations turned to Trotskyism, Fascism, and Authoritarianism... It set up the players of the Secong Weltkreig with the fascist Paris-London-Rome-Madrid-Warsaw Entente (France, Britain, Italy, Spain, Poland, the Baltics, Belarus, Finland, and Portugal) and the heroic Allied Powers (Germany, Austria-Hungary, Japan, America, the Iscinin Union, Norway, Sweden, Russia, and Switzerland)... What would happen if the Central Powers lost the Weltkreig though? Would Austria take the path France did? Would Germany turn towards Syndicalism?
DBWI: What if the Entente won the Weltkreig
- Thread starter lionjedi1215
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You need a different alliance system if they are to win, Maybe a France, Austrian Empire, and co Russia vs Germany, UK and co.
To avoid german victory you have to replace the german diplomatic core with some one completely incopetent or just have a Kaiser who is an idiot, maybe if you prevent Kaiser Wilhelms assasination by Marxists you can get a german defeat the man was by all accounts much less stable then his son who was a fine leader, who reformed germany's diplomatic core into the force that built the alliance that let them win both wars.
A more militaristic Japan maybe? The resentment from losing WW1 and getting nothing out of the war might push them to take the Concessions they would have got in China by force. Since this would put them outside the international order now, it might encourage the military to be even more adventurous than OTL, and hurt the development of democracy in Japan during the 20s and 30s.
I think that's a bit of a cliche... Maybe a Communist/Syndicalist nation?
That's not really possible here. Wilhelm III's Diplomatic Corps WON him those wars with getting Britain AND the United States on side. France lost the first war because it could only get a few minor powers and Russia on it's side, who had yet to become the beast she was in the Second Weltkreig under the reformed Democracy. The loss of Britain AND Italy to the Axis before the second war was a suprising blow, but by that point, the US and Russia could seal the deal.
Using a hypothetical Wilhelm the 2nd Kaiser-ship, I still don't think so. Remember, the driving force of German Politics leading into the Great War was the largely Reformist German Socialist Party(the SPD, I believe), in fact; it's still a major force in German Politics to this day. It wasn't until the Russian Civil War in 1916 that Syndicalists even showed up at all, as a tiny split-off from the SPD...and they were never really able to gain traction. However, I could see a largely SPD created and led Democracy. How stable it would be is up for debate, especially if the transfer of power happens before the end of the war, because having to sign a humiliating peace agreement(like what Germany made France sign) would put any such government under a dark flag.
IIRC there were almost no fascists in Germany, so Germany going another ideology would be basically expected, and Syndicalism was one of most popular ideologies leading into the 2nd Weltkreig, however Austria had more fascists, and would most likely be fascist
kham_coc
Banned
Well there was basically no fascists because they were already loyalists, in a scenario where the kaiser loses all legitimacy, i can certainly see how the nationalists turning towards RWA, though some sort of Junker dominated military kratocracy is most likely (Whether you call that fascism is just a matter semantics).
Have you seen the most recent documentary on French concentration camps during the Popunat regime?
kham_coc
Banned
well Id say that particular form of RWA (that's Right wing authorianism, i should have said so before) isn't something that (probably) would fit into a potential German turn to the dark side, yes, there was their genocide in South africa, but that pales in comparison to france - Now that isn't a moral judgement, it's just that France was a coloniser for a lot longer, and it (Imho) was those colonial experiences that lead to the French concentration camps.
It start with Algeria is French, and ends well, badly.
ED - Obviously, it starts badly too, Free algeria.
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The Colonial Government in the Republic was bad... But rule under the 3rd French Empire and the Popunats... they sent Germans, Jews, Arabs, and others that de Gaulle considered "undesirables" to Algeria and other parts of the 3rd Empire
kham_coc
Banned
their odds would either be much improved, (and Early victory) or be marginally improved (Russia loses on schedule, France somehow manages to win). Germany didn't like intervening, but were obviously motivated by necessity, so it's plausible that France and (presumably, the UK) doesn't, or does a worse job of it. The US and Japan are likely to do something in Siberia regardless, though i doubt some sort of Rump white state could be maintained if European Russia goes Bolshie.
OK, the situation in China was interesting too, The Republic was leaning towards Fascism, while the People's Republic was leaning towards National Communism
Well if Kaiser Wilhelm the 2nd was still the ruler than I could see Britain and Italy joining The Allies. Germany would be royally fucked.
Another interesting thing is that the US might not have gotten involved in the war at all. They certainly wouldn't like Wilhelm the 2nds Germany and and as for The Allies considering Americas huge minorities of Irish I doubt they would fight alongside Britain, not unless they want a bloody insurrection.
The only way I could see them still getting into the war would be a German equivalent to the Churchill Telegram or Germany attacks neutral shipping with U Boats because of a huge British blockade (almost certainly what England would do in this hypothetical situation)
Another interesting thing is that the US might not have gotten involved in the war at all. They certainly wouldn't like Wilhelm the 2nds Germany and and as for The Allies considering Americas huge minorities of Irish I doubt they would fight alongside Britain, not unless they want a bloody insurrection.
The only way I could see them still getting into the war would be a German equivalent to the Churchill Telegram or Germany attacks neutral shipping with U Boats because of a huge British blockade (almost certainly what England would do in this hypothetical situation)