DBWI:The US wins the Battle of Midway

Johnrankins

As we all know the Japanese lost only one carrier and we lost two of ours plus the island. They managed to put about 80 or so fighters on it and were barely able to resupply it to a minmal degee. The US retook Midway on May 1st, 1943. Would the end of the war happened before December 1945 when we finally got in range of Japan and were able to drop an A-bomb on it and if so by how much?
 

BCO

Johnrankins said:
As we all know the Japanese lost only one carrier and we lost two of ours plus the island. They managed to put about 80 or so fighters on it and were barely able to resupply it to a minmal degee. The US retook Midway on May 1st, 1943. Would the end of the war happened before December 1945 when we finally got in range of Japan and were able to drop an A-bomb on it and if so by how much?
Click to expand...

The war would have ended in the same way. Maybe getting within range a little earlier could have slightly moved up the schedule.
 

Cockroach

Johnrankins said:
As we all know the Japanese lost only one carrier and we lost two of ours plus the island. They managed to put about 80 or so fighters on it and were barely able to resupply it to a minmal degee. The US retook Midway on May 1st, 1943. Would the end of the war happened before December 1945 when we finally got in range of Japan and were able to drop an A-bomb on it and if so by how much?
Click to expand...
OOC: Good... I was worried for a moment and half expected that a n00b had posted some crazy "JApS taKz Midway... wiN dA wAR" type scenario.
 

Doug M.

Well, our submarine base at Midway ended up being pretty important in the last year of the war. If it had been operational throughout the whole war, our guerre du course against Japanese shipping would have gotten off the ground a lot faster.

That would have had knock-on effects all over the place. For instance, OTL Saipan was a brutal slugging match that dragged on for over a month. But if the Japanese had fewer ships to resupply it, Saipan might have fallen in just a week or two. All the Marianas might have been taken in June or July '44, instead of waiting until September.

Of course, some things depend on how well your alt-Midway goes for the US. Do we just hang on to Midway, or do we get to sink some Japanese carriers too? OTL we weren't able to do that until the Battle of the Philippine Sea.


Doug M.
 

Doug M.

OOC: I don't think the war would have lasted until December '45, even if the Japanese had won Midway bigtime.

Why? Because the atomic bomb was coming in August 1945 regardless. All the US needed was a base within bombing range, i.e., the Marianas.

OTL the Marianas fell in the summer of 1944. I could see a loss of Midway delaying this by three months, no problem. Six months, maybe. But by the spring of 1945, either Saipan or Tinian would be in US hands.

Also, while Yalta would probably play out differently, the US would still lobby Stalin to join the war, and he'd still agree. Why not? So in August 1945 the USSR still invades Manchuria and Korea.

So, the war still ends around the same time as OTL.

Which is not to say this isn't interesting! Differences in the course of the war could have huge knock-on effects down the line.


Doug M.
 

merlin

Yes I suppose that if the US had won the Naval Battle at Midway it would have made a difference; but not a lot as the US soon made up the Carrier losses.

But then again if they had won the Naval Battle the Japannese would've had all those troops available elsewhere! As it was the Island Invasion was a fiasco, with the Midway lagoon stained red with the blood of the Japannese soldiers & naval marines. Whose invasion craft had got stuck on the outer-reefs of the island. Some had tried to get through dredged entrance to the lagoon, but had be blasted by the well sited artillery.
True the island was hit again by another air-strike,but the visible targets had already been hit, and the others were to well protected.

Yes the defenders had a hard time getting re-supplied, but they hung on.
Japan, contented itself with the Naval Victory - which was all they wanted.
 

rudebadger

Johnrankins said:
As we all know the Japanese lost only one carrier and we lost two of ours plus the island. They managed to put about 80 or so fighters on it and were barely able to resupply it to a minmal degee. The US retook Midway on May 1st, 1943. Would the end of the war happened before December 1945 when we finally got in range of Japan and were able to drop an A-bomb on it and if so by how much?
Click to expand...

But then my grandfather wouldn't have any cool war stories of the submarine that he crewed surfacing at night and shelling Midway with a 3-inch gun for a couple of minutes before crash diving to escape.
 

hak19

Well there would have been no attempted Japanese invasion of Hawaii and no Alaskan Front which cost the Japanese irreplacable carriers, pilots and thousands of it best troops. The victory disease the Japanese caught after the battle of Midway shortened the war with their war cabinet setting unrealistic and frankly fantastic goals for the Imperial Navy and Army to meet. The U.S. submarine force had a happy time sinking all the unprotected japanese shipping headed to alaska and hawaii. If anything the battle of midway was a victory that cost the japanese the war.
 

Cherico

Banned
hak19 said:
Well there would have been no attempted Japanese invasion of Hawaii and no Alaskan Front which cost the Japanese irreplacable carriers, pilots and thousands of it best troops. The victory disease the Japanese caught after the battle of Midway shortened the war with their war cabinet setting unrealistic and frankly fantastic goals for the Imperial Navy and Army to meet. The U.S. submarine force had a happy time sinking all the unprotected japanese shipping headed to alaska and hawaii. If anything the battle of midway was a victory that cost the japanese the war.
Click to expand...

Is it wrong that I find it absoulutly hilarous that the japanese forgot to
give their invasion force for Alaska winter gear? More of there troops
were killed by cold then by us troops
 

Johnrankins

hak19 said:
Well there would have been no attempted Japanese invasion of Hawaii and no Alaskan Front which cost the Japanese irreplacable carriers, pilots and thousands of it best troops. The victory disease the Japanese caught after the battle of Midway shortened the war with their war cabinet setting unrealistic and frankly fantastic goals for the Imperial Navy and Army to meet. The U.S. submarine force had a happy time sinking all the unprotected japanese shipping headed to alaska and hawaii. If anything the battle of midway was a victory that cost the japanese the war.
Click to expand...

I admit you may be right. Not losing Midway might have lenghthend the war. Quite an interesting idea.
 

Johnrankins

Cherico said:
Is it wrong that I find it absoulutly hilarous that the japanese forgot to
give their invasion force for Alaska winter gear? More of there troops
were killed by cold then by us troops
Click to expand...

Yes, that was a bone-headed manuever! You would think they would have learned from the German example.
 

Advernt

Well , they did invade in the Summer of 1942, just one week before they finally succeeded in establishing a small beachead on Hawaii ( the land battle took two months and cost the Japanese three carriers and over 70000 men ) .

Needless to say , when they were finally thrown out of US soil by early 1943 , the US Navy rapidly overranned their retreating forces , crushing much of the disorganized Japanese Pacific Fleets in the Second Battle of Midway ( Honestly , noone knows why the Japanese tried regrouping at Midway - most of the Naval command were massacred during the rout and the rapid sinking of the four Japanese Carriers milling around in Midway )

Ofcourse , the war in Europe was scaled back , and dragged on into the first months of 1946 as American troops were diverted into the Pacific . Ironically at the very time the Americans were routing the disorganized IJN , the Germans broke through the Southern Volga River defenses and even reached Astrakhan for a while . The siege of Stalingard dragged on for 15 straight months before General Zhukov finally drove the German army out of Khazakstan and into the Volga river before engineering the series of brilliant advances ( helped by the 1944 German Highcommand Purges) from the Volga all the way through half the Ukraine.
 

Douglas

OOC: We need to figure out how the US didn't sink any Japanese aircraft carriers before some "Battle of the Philippine Sea", yet managed to fight a battle off Midway after this battle where four Japanese carriers were sunk! Not to mention the POD has to be before OTL Coral Sea, since the light carrier Shoho was sunk there...

IC: I suppose a good place for a POD here would be to have the Americans actually get some hits on Zuikaku and Shokaku, putting them out of service for Midway. In that situation, it's four Japanese fleet carriers against five instead of OTL six on five, and the numbers are on our side. The battle still happens, since the Japanese though they sank Lexington and put Saratoga out of action before the battle, and the war ends just a little sooner...perhaps even before the Japanese use biological weapons against the Russians, although that seems like such an obvious move that it would be hard to butterfly away.

EDIT: OOC, ignore Advernt's post as it clearly contradicts Doug's earlier post.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top