DBWI: The United States won the Cold War.

[Sam R.]

And how do you know all of the ~50 million people executed during the Molotov years were "evil bourgeoise?"
OOC: Seriously, am I the only one sick of the "Soviet Victory in the Cold War means the Soviet Union becomes a shiny happy socialist paradise" scenario?

Yes Great Russian state capitalism was abhorrent but necessary to develop the Mikoyan line. Also claiming the demographic deficiency method of calculating lost births as executions is ludicrous. With the voluntary collectivisation increased urbanisation and proletarianisation of the countryside, admittedly under urban militia, resulted in lowered birth rates. Molotovism resulted in fewer than four million executions and deaths in reform through labour camps before the reforms.

Yours,
Sam R.

IOC: not shiny happy but a better 1930s would result in far fewer preventable deaths.

 

[WotanArgead]

Yes Great Russian state capitalism was abhorrent but necessary to develop the Mikoyan line. Also claiming the demographic deficiency method of calculating lost births as executions is ludicrous. With the voluntary collectivisation increased urbanisation and proletarianisation of the countryside, admittedly under urban militia, resulted in lowered birth rates. Molotovism resulted in fewer than four million executions and deaths in reform through labour camps before the reforms.
IOC: not shiny happy but a better 1930s would result in far fewer preventable deaths.

Are you a "Left Communist"?

 

[WotanArgead]

I love tankie LARPers. It's almost as if the hardliners took over after Khrushchev instead of the reformers who installed Dubcek in Czechoslovakia to test self management in an advanced industrial country as a solution for qualitative growth.

Yours,
Sam R.

In fact, the Khrushchev councils of the national economy only led to an increase in the bureaucratic apparatus. The situation was rectified only by the factory committees of Kosygin-Kaletsky (a Polish economist who proposed reform to Kosygin). However, we must give him credit - he advanced computerized management of academician Glushkov - the first step towards scientific management.

 

[helher]

You soviets always think that you have the right form of socialism. However authoritarian socialism is not the kind of socialism that functions best. Nordic democratic socialism where the economy is divided between worker owned syndicates and government owned facilities ensures a dynamic and fair economy! The cold war in my opinion was more of a socialist victory rather than a soviet one.

 

[xie323]

I think for the US to win the Cold War you would also have to prevent the military coups that led to the rise of autocratic governments in France and Italy in the 1970s, while Operation Northwoods, the Vietnam War, and the US meddling in it's own allies policies such as funding arms and weaponry to Yukio Mishima and his band of nutcases in Japan to carry out his failed coup destroyed all faith in the US governments, the way that France and Italy fell to Fascism destroyed all faith in capitalism as a whole.

But I don't see how this could be prevented unless the Spanish Republic was not victorious and/or the Soviet advance into Germany did not result in a full red Germany, but partition. Having a red Spain + red Germany really gave strong voice to the far-right in capitalist governments.

Alternatively, have some sort of social reform to co-opt and shut up the opposition in the US, the US relied solely on the WWII and the military industrial complex to create jobs, so maybe rather than a string of pro-corporate presidents maybe have a reformist or social democrat in for a change? But I feel that would only delay the inevitable(OOC: Since no one established it, Roosevelt never became president here, instead succumbing to polio in the 1920s, so he dies relatively unknown)

You soviets always think that you have the right form of socialism. However authoritarian socialism is not the kind of socialism that functions best. Nordic democratic socialism where the economy is divided between worker owned syndicates and government owned facilities ensures a dynamic and fair economy! The cold war in my opinion was more of a socialist victory rather than a soviet one.

So as the various socialist powers have after the Cold War without the political need to maintain united front of the far-left against capitalism having drifted to their own devices, I wonder if we will see a more volitile split between various forms of capitalism had the Soviets lost the Cold War. And it would be IMHO very messed up and dystopian, we would go back to the conditions on the eve of World War I, and with nuclear weaponry there is no telling what the capitalist and imperialist powers can destroy this time......

 

[WotanArgead]

You soviets always think that you have the right form of socialism. However authoritarian socialism is not the kind of socialism that functions best. Nordic democratic socialism where the economy is divided between worker owned syndicates and government owned facilities ensures a dynamic and fair economy! The cold war in my opinion was more of a socialist victory rather than a soviet one.

What is your factory committees in your opinion!? The workers themselves organize the production process, and participate in drawing up plans. From the state it is necessary to control the prices, and the overall picture of the plan. Well, we could not switch to self-governing models in the 30's, the people were illiterate.

 

[WotanArgead]

So as the various socialist powers have after the Cold War without the political need to maintain united front of the far-left against capitalism having drifted to their own devices, I wonder if we will see a more volitile split between various forms of capitalism had the Soviets lost the Cold War. And it would be IMHO very messed up and dystopian, we would go back to the conditions on the eve of World War I, and with nuclear weaponry there is no telling what the capitalist and imperialist powers can destroy this time......

If such an option is possible, then intuition suggests that this will be a struggle between Asian and American imperialism. In OTL there is a relative tension between the Euro-Soviet and Chinese models (plus small differences within). But they cooperate among themselves in the economic and scientific-technical terms. Disagreements in Ideology are not a reason to introduce troops. But the imperialists are fighting among themselves for markets - with nuclear weapons this will only lead to moss destruction. Since Europe has lost its colonies, I suppose that the war can begin between the US and Japan.

 

[Deleted member 97083]

You soviets always think that you have the right form of socialism. However authoritarian socialism is not the kind of socialism that functions best. Nordic democratic socialism where the economy is divided between worker owned syndicates and government owned facilities ensures a dynamic and fair economy! The cold war in my opinion was more of a socialist victory rather than a soviet one.

Nordic democratic socialism is not real socialism!

In real socialism, as it is practiced in the People's Republic of Texas, the vanguard party must make decisions for the workers. The Party Members or Upper Proletariat must own the means of production, in workers' stead. And by this means, their wealth will "trickle down" to the workers of the Lower Proletariat!

 

[not_an_original_name]

Nordic democratic socialism is not real socialism!

In real socialism, as it is practiced in the People's Republic of Texas, the vanguard party must make decisions for the workers. The Party Members or Upper Proletariat must own the means of production, in workers' stead. And by this means, their wealth will "trickle down" to the workers of the Lower Proletariat!

You southerners can never get away from supply-side economics it seems, even in "socialism"!

 

[Sam R.]

Are you a "Left Communist"?

I'm sorry that the Bukharin line failed in the 1920s, but the material conditions of the 1930s throwing up the "Ural-Siberian" method hardly makes me a left communist. Hell, the party's deficiency in dealing with an agronomist reformer in Hungary pushed back the Dubcek reforms by 12 years.

Yours,
Sam R.

Ooc: yes

 

[WotanArgead]

I'm sorry that the Bukharin line failed in the 1920s, but the material conditions of the 1930s throwing up the "Ural-Siberian" method hardly makes me a left communist. Hell, the party's deficiency in dealing with an agronomist reformer in Hungary pushed back the Dubcek reforms by 12 years.

Yours,
Sam R.

Ooc: yes

Well, after all, we could not afford to peacefully develop the economy. Industrialization was necessary.

 

[Halocon]

PR Californian here. The Avakian cult was thankfully dismantled by GenSec Brown when he took power with the rest of the Sinclairites last year. It's far less stifling nowadays; Avie was more akin to the "trickledown socialist" upthread.

(OOC: I know Brown isn't a socialist and Avakian is obscure but bear with me)

 

[helher]

Nordic democratic socialism is not real socialism!

In real socialism, as it is practiced in the People's Republic of Texas, the vanguard party must make decisions for the workers. The Party Members or Upper Proletariat must own the means of production, in workers' stead. And by this means, their wealth will "trickle down" to the workers of the Lower Proletariat!

I see that the Texans still practise their form for "socialism". In my opinion Texan socialism is just an opportunity for the corrupt elites to fool the masses to think that they live under socialism. At least the soviets practise a form of socialism that Marx wouldn't be shocked of!