DBWI: The Mexican Empire collapsed?

[Kayin Dreemurr]

I recently read a newspaper article about a Mexican historian who decided to write a paper theorizing on what would have happened if the Mexican Empire had broken down. He's getting a fair bit of flak for his theory, as he doesn't paint a very pretty picture for the alternate Mexico's history.

I do think though that Crown Prince Hernandez's comments were a little too much, but perhaps it has something do with how his ancestor, Emperor Agustin I, faired in the history.

What thoughts do you guys have? Any opinions on how history might have been different without the Empire of Mexico?

 

[FellowNerd]

It really depends on when the Empire falls. earlier they just might be a punching bag for the US, latter and the whole alliance system in WWI is screwy because instead of a potential ally/enemy on each border they just have one border to worry about.

 

[Lord Grattan]

I have not read this particular article nor am I familiar w/this particular historian's projections, however, in my estimation, the overthrow of Augustin I would have ushered in a chaotic period - probably several decades - of political instability and lawlessness. I imagine ...
~ that there would be numerous revolutions and counter-revolutions in Mexico,
~ frequent attempts by local Mexican leaders in the North, Yucatan and far South to secede from the empire,
~ that Spain might attempt to reconquer Mexico,
~ that the United States (USA) and the Federated States (FAE, ie. Central America) would at some point in time attempt to expand their respective territories at Mexico's expense.

Augustin and those around him set the spirit, tone and mood for the nation's future. Remove them from power and the "Gem Between the Seas" that is today's Mexico becomes a virtual slag heap.

 

[whitecrow]

What thoughts do you guys have? Any opinions on how history might have been different without the Empire of Mexico?

Please, empire or no empire Mexico would still be a global superpower. It just has too many geographical and geopolitical advantages to be anything less than a great power at worst.

 

[Faralis]

Revisionist! The people was always with the emperor!

If that happened we would have been invaded by the evil yankis!


OOC: I doubt a FRENCH aligned empire would have ended in the German side on WWI. Hell this probably butterflies the Franco-Prussian war ( so no German empire ), or if it occurs, it could ended with a French victory ...

 

[sum sine regno]

You do know that the majority of the population in the North isn't Mexican at all, and through clever American tactics they will own it anyways.

And I think Texas will always be Texas, it isn't like anyone actually wants it (the USA, or Mexico). Far too many guns with nuts.

ooc: I am presuming an independent Texas, that is a buffer state used by both Mexico and the USA.

 

[Bexar]

If the empire fell, I believe that today we would see abouth four or five sucessour states in the region.

The US probally won't invade or really interfer in Mexican politics, I mean, look at how they ignored Texas, even when they sent annexation petitions. The US at the time doesn't want any territory that could spark a debate on slavery, since that could lead to even more sectoralism and eventually to a Civil War.

So instead, we'd probally see one or two Anglophile states up north, one in Centeral Mexico, and maybe an independent Yucatan/Southern Mexico. Considering the resources in these areas, they would probally be regional powers, or atleast small time players on the global stage.

 

[Axeman]

I read the entire article and it seems like uncreative political pandering rather than serious alternate history.

Basically every prediction is our history but instead of Mexico, it is replaced with USA, except rather than Mexico taking the Oregon Country it is America taking the fairly desolate Northwestern Territories of Mexico, then doing everything Mexico ever did but replacing the country.

It is political pandering about stopping American immigration and taking Mexican jobs, but that is a debate for another thread.

 

[The Uchronian]

I recently read a newspaper article about a Mexican historian who decided to write a paper theorizing on what would have happened if the Mexican Empire had broken down. He's getting a fair bit of flak for his theory, as he doesn't paint a very pretty picture for the alternate Mexico's history.

I do think though that Crown Prince Hernandez's comments were a little too much, but perhaps it has something do with how his ancestor, Emperor Agustin I, faired in the history.

What thoughts do you guys have? Any opinions on how history might have been different without the Empire of Mexico?

I've read the paper myself, he's a friend of my mother's. This scenario is indeed unfortunate, but the truth is, it's actually a better place to live than OTL's Empire, all things considered.

@Sum Sine: Yep, that is true, I've been to all four of them, Baja California, Sonora, Durango, and Coahuila. And sadly, they're all screwed up.

@Axeman: LOL, who are they kidding? If anything, it's been the other way around.

OOC: I hate to spoil the party but any Mexican Empire taking the Oregon Country is ASB. You'll need to get rid of Agustin first, at the very least.

 

[Kayin Dreemurr]

OOC: The idea I had was that they have at the least, Texas (or at least half of it), New Mexico, Arizona, central and southern California, and probably the southern half of Utah and Nevada. They could have more, but this leaves room for possibilities. One of us should probably come up with a map.

IC: It's just so upsetting to see this belief that if it weren't for Agustin, Mexico would have spiraled into such a mess. Sure, Mexico did have some trouble here and there, as every country does, but that it would get so out of control... I mean did you see how many time's leadership changed in that paper?

Of course, there is at least the advantage that you didn't have America's Indian War's causing so much trouble with the Empire. How close did they get to war again?

 

[PulkitNahata]

Meh. Mexico was, is and will always be a great power. There is no way that Mexico could have collapsed if Augustin I was overthrown. The abve scenario is unrealistic.

Also if Augustine I had been overthrown then there would not be the Imperial Alliance between the French, the Russians, te Ottomans and the Mexicans after Napoleon II was crowned Emperor after the Second French Revolution in 1832. That would seriously change the game so to speak.

 

[Kayin Dreemurr]

Meh. Mexico was, is and will always be a great power. There is no way that Mexico could have collapsed if Augustin I was overthrown. The abve scenario is unrealistic.

Also if Augustine I had been overthrown then there would not be the Imperial Alliance between the French, the Russians, te Ottomans and the Mexicans after Napoleon II was crowned Emperor after the Second French Revolution in 1932. That would seriously change the game so to speak.

OOC: I'm not sure if 1932 is the right date there or not...

 

[PulkitNahata]

OOC: I'm not sure if 1932 is the right date there or not...

OOC: Sorry I meant 1832