DBWI: Stronger Romans

[UncleDynamite]

I was reading up on this people called the "Romans", who lived in Latium and apparently posed a formidable threat to the Samnite League during the latter's unification of the Italian peninsula. They were eventually conquered and annexed into the League. Their language, Latin, died out a few hundred years later.

I was wondering if the Romans could have halted the Samnites any more significantly than they did OTL, and what effect this would have had on the Samnites' expansion and the League's transition to the Samnite Realm.

 

[SlyDessertFox]

Roman control over the Latin League was far from secure. After all, the Samnites exploited rivalries within the league to weaken Rome's power in it. Divide and conquer. I'm not sure the Romans could resist the Samnites forever though-the Samnites were a very warlike people, and while we have accounts that the Latins were as well (after all, they gave a good account of themselves in their later revolt that nearly broke Samnite power over the peninsula, the Samnites were simply too determined once they became more unified under the Caudini tribe.

I think what you have to do is keep the Samnites as a loose confederation-don't let the Caudini dominate it and eventually centralize it under their control.

 

[DevonPasty]

Would have have come to blows with Carthage? Seems like any power from that region must eventually come into conflict with Carthage in a 'War for the Med'. Would they have more success driving Carthage off Sicily, or would it play out in a similar fashion to OTL's Sicilian Wars?

 

[ramones1986]

Well, if the Romans were stronger, expect the spread of their language in both sides of the Mediterranean, forming dialects depending in the geographical area, which will be different from the "official" dialect of a surviving Latin.

 

[UncleDynamite]

Well, if the Romans were stronger, expect the spread of their language in both sides of the Mediterranean, forming dialects depending in the geographical area, which will be different from the "official" dialect of a surviving Latin.

Ah, so Latin languages instead of the Caudance family. I think that would mean most Europan languages would be read from left to right, as the Latins apparently did.

 

[ramones1986]

Ah, so Latin languages instead of the Caudance family. I think that would mean most Europan languages would be read from left to right, as the Latins apparently did.

Indeed, Latin will not just survive, but also become the dominant language of all Mediterranean, and eventually, the dialects will become languages themselves, just like in the Oscan-derived languages.

 

[Scherzo]

Do you think they would have been better at checking the Athenian League's expansion into the Near East and Eastern Europa?

 

[LNSS]

(OoC:How are we writing in latin script if there was no latin language at all)

 

[Scherzo]

OOC: Translation convention.

 

[UncleDynamite]

OOC: Translation convention.

(OOC: This. Also, the Oscan script was very similar to Latin, just read RtL. And Latin would've existed in this universe, but die out after a few centuries of slow decline and leave no heirs except for scattered vocabulary in Oscan dialects of Latium, similar to Oscan OTL. There are still many words in Molisan directly related to Oscan rather than Latin.)

 

[Scherzo]

I've also heard TLs where a strong Rome allows Near Eastern monotheist religions to gain traction throughout Europa and North Africa, though it always struck me as ASB to me.

 

[SunDeep]

OOC: So, which language are we actually writing in, ITTL? I'm guessing it wouldn't be mutually intelligible with OTL's English.

 

[Whitewings]

The spread would likely have been aided by greater linguistic uniformity, but the idea of monotheism becoming mainstream does seem to edge onto ASB territory, given that most such groups don't really do a lot to actively spread their beliefs. Well, some do, but they don't seem to be very successful at it. The Jews, the Nazarites, the Medinans, the Mithraists, I doubt all of them combined come to more than a fifteenth of the world's population.

 

[Kaiphranos]

I've also heard TLs where a strong Rome allows Near Eastern monotheist religions to gain traction throughout Europa and North Africa, though it always struck me as ASB to me.

I suspect that's just a matter of convenience for the authors--we know so little about Roman religion that it's easier to handwave a mass conversion to Samaritanism or whatever than to do the research and come up with something convincing...

 

[UncleDynamite]

OOC: So, which language are we actually writing in, ITTL? I'm guessing it wouldn't be mutually intelligible with OTL's English.

OOC: Considering butterflies, I have no idea. With a POD of circa 300 BC, a recognizable English forming is incredibly unlikely. Let's assume that a maritime people from NW Europe eventually grow strong and spread their language, and this language has a lot of Oscan influence of the degree similar to Latin's with English.

 

[Scherzo]

I think a stronger Rome is less of an implausibility than some of the TLs I've seen where Macedon conquers the Athenian League. I can't believe how many timelines I've seen that suggested if only Philip II wasn't killed in battle he could have created a dynasty that conquered the Near East. How was the king of some agrarian hinterland going to topple Athens?

(OOC: How Christianity converted the Roman Empire actually is something that strikes me as inconceivable.)

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Stronger Romans? Pew! Have you ever stood downwind of one of those pig herders?
oh, you didnt mean smell.

Ooc: a possible snarky comment I might have made ittl. Im assuming Rome survives, but is a small town and agricultural center.

 

[SlyDessertFox]

I don't get why everyone assumes Latin would dominate. If the Samnites are not there to spread their culture, then despite a stronger Rome, I think Greek will become the most widespread language in Europe. After all, the Oscans did borrow a lot of words from Greek, and many educated Samnites eventually did speak Greek themselves.

 

[voss749]

(written in greek alphabet)

I never understood why right to left or left to right matters, just change direction on each line like they do in greek.

[OOC: The celtic court used greek as the standard language BEFORE the POD so no rome no reason to use samnian, especially since they already traded with greece)

 

[Scherzo]

Kinda of going far afield here, but do you think a powerful Rome would've led to Europan colonization of Atlantis sooner than OTL? Maybe less Xin colonization too.