DBWI: Non-Muslim Scandinavia

[lerk]

IOTL, Viking raiders led by al-Rusi (name prior to conversion still unknown) raided al-Andalus in 844. However, as he was there he, along with the rest of his crew was inspired to convert to Islam due to interactions with the locals. With their new-found religious zeal, they came back to around the southern areas of Scandinavia and established a foothold for Islam there. Soon, more Scandinavians converted to Islam, and many Muslim kingdoms there would battle with the Pagan and Christian Scandinavia kingdoms, and by the 12th century the region was majority Muslim.

However, what if Scandinavia did not become Muslim? How would this impact European, and world history altogether?

 

[Nivek]

IOTL, Viking raiders led by al-Rusi (name prior to conversion still unknown) raided al-Andalus in 844. However, as he was there he, along with the rest of his crew was inspired to convert to Islam due to interactions with the locals. With their new-found religious zeal, they came back to around the southern areas of Scandinavia and established a foothold for Islam there. Soon, more Scandinavians converted to Islam, and many Muslim kingdoms there would battle with the Pagan and Christian Scandinavia kingdoms, and by the 12th century the region was majority Muslim.

However, what if Scandinavia did not become Muslim? How would this impact European, and world history altogether?

Well, the effects on Andalus will be massive, the Muslim Al-rusi(need better name for vikings in arab..i sucks in arab...) helped later on to conquer the mountain kingdom and they bring more slavs and other nordic pagans as slaves later become muslim changed a lot the ethnic makeup of the peninsula and their understanding of the artic circle and others.

Of course this change islam, the northern school adapted specially to the harsh winters of the scandinavia regions and the long summers and short days in winter(the debate about ramadan both in summer and winter...we might not see an early invention of clock and the '12 hours of fasting if in the north'(for both summer and winter) fatwa was implemented for that regard, along more liberal dietary laws(of course some arab muslim are less wary to eat pork and drink and eat mead based meals unless necessary...but we don't back them down if offered, of course pigs are not animals worthy for sacrifice but is the 'emergency food' as considered suicide not eat it if needed)

Dunno, Islam would be a far more different thing all together.

(And yeah the nordic mythology of the aesir were Djinn loss north after breaking up with Iblis...that is unique still dominated muslim based stories)

 

[lerk]

Muslim Al-rusi(need better name for vikings in arab..i sucks in arab...)

OOC: I did this because, IOTL, Arabs called Vikings "Rusiyyah"

along more liberal dietary laws(of course some arab muslim are less wary to eat pork and drink and eat mead based meals unless necessary...but we don't back them down if offered, of course pigs are not animals worthy for sacrifice but is the 'emergency food' as considered suicide not eat it if needed)

With modern technology much of the laws regarding pork and alcohol become redundant as now they aren't really necessities. That has led to pork and alcohol production in Scandinavia going down because of this. Perhaps we might see a return to more conservative dietary laws within the Scandinavian region.

 

[AltoRegnant]

Russia would be weird. Otl they certainly got their muslim Scandinavia influence, but they were more similar to the orthodox byzantines.

Anglia and later Prydain most certainly would be less crusade-y if they didnt have a Muslim power on their butt. Probably united later too.

 

[lerk]

I wonder what will happen to Christianity ITTL. The fact that they were sandwiched between two Muslim areas meant that the demand to split from the Church wasn't big, as splitting would weaken Christendom and leave it open for Muslim conquests. Might we see more Christian churches in a TL where Scandinavia doesn't become Muslim?

 

[Alarico Rodríguez]

Russia would be weird. Otl they certainly got their muslim Scandinavia influence, but they were more similar to the orthodox byzantines.

Anglia and later Prydain most certainly would be less crusade-y if they didnt have a Muslim power on their butt. Probably united later too.

Said Orthodox Byzantines would have most likely kept the Muslims away, had it not been for how the Goths and Heruli under Naulobatus took the entire Greek peninsula and, for some reason, lost the very same naval traditions that had enabled them to take it in the first place, allowing the Muslims to take over the Balkans and the western coast of the Black Sea. The Byzantines in the remaining strip in Anatolia didn't even last into the 12th century, when it got divided between the Scandinavian, Arab and Turkic Muslims.

 

[Jürgen]

With modern technology much of the laws regarding pork and alcohol become redundant as now they aren't really necessities. That has led to pork and alcohol production in Scandinavia going down because of this. Perhaps we might see a return to more conservative dietary laws within the Scandinavian region.

Unlikely, we won’t see a adoption of the Islamic lunar year either, there’s reason that the Nordic Ramadan always lies after winter solstice, and there’s very low tolerance for anyone trying to change it. There was restrictions in alcohol consumption was created in 1341 AH in Geotland follwing with similar restriction in 1343, 1344 and 1347 in Svealand, Westland and Holmgaard. But these was connected with secular movements, and have been slowly rolled back in the century since. The Nordic countries are disconnected from the rest of Muslim world by geography, climate and how the conversion happened, even using the Runic Koran instead of the Arabic one. Even attempt to change to the Arabic Koran have failed.

 

[Dolan]

The British Islands won't be the battleground of massive religious conflicts between the Muslim Vikings and Christian Saxons for centuries.

Well, people will always have reason to fight with each others, but there will be less discrimination against circumcised men in England and Ireland, because there will be no Sultanate of Al-Sakout (OOC: Scotland)

 

[Nivek]

Russia would be weird. Otl they certainly got their muslim Scandinavia influence, but they were more similar to the orthodox byzantines.

Anglia and later Prydain most certainly would be less crusade-y if they didnt have a Muslim power on their butt. Probably united later too.

The British Islands won't be the battleground of massive religious conflicts between the Muslim Vikings and Christian Saxons for centuries.

Well, people will always have reason to fight with each others, but there will be less discrimination against circumcised men in England and Ireland, because there will be no Sultanate of Al-Sakout (OOC: Scotland)

England? The name of the whole island? i know Pyrdain is the biggest christian kingdom based on welsh, there something i forgot? and yeah not Sultanate of Al-Ulsutaru(Ulster, aka north ireland) either.

 

[Dolan]

England? The name of the whole island? i know Pyrdain is the biggest christian kingdom based on welsh, there something i forgot? and yeah not Sultanate of Al-Ulsutaru(Ulster, aka north ireland) either.

At least there is "Unbreakable Bond of Brotherhood" between Christian English and Irish, as they deem the Muslims of the North Their True Enemies.

 

[AltoRegnant]

England? The name of the whole island? i know Pyrdain is the biggest christian kingdom based on welsh, there something i forgot? and yeah not Sultanate of Al-Ulsutaru(Ulster, aka north ireland) either.

OOC: i was aiming for England uniting britain, but embracing celticness to distract from the shared ancestry between them and the muslim scandinavians

 

[Jürgen]

OC: Why would Norse suddenly begin to use Arabic names for areas they already had name for? Next Scandinavian languages make much greater use of vocals than Semitic one does, so if they used Arabic word and names they would be Scandinavianized much as Arabic word in Turkish and Persian have been adapted to those language, I see no reason a isolated region far from Arabic world, with language very distinct from Arabic would make those linguistic changes. We can just see how the Turks and Indo-Iranians keep using the Iranian word -stan as ending on countries. There’s no reason for the Norse to drop -land, or Arabicize the name of people. Danelaw could change name thanks to theological changes in how the Norse would see war as a religious act of spreading the faith. Maybe it could be called the Land or Strife or War. Which could develop into Werreland (war land).

 

[Nivek]

OC: Why would Norse suddenly begin to use Arabic names for areas they already had name for? Next Scandinavian languages make much greater use of vocals than Semitic one does, so if they used Arabic word and names they would be Scandinavianized much as Arabic word in Turkish and Persian have been adapted to those language, I see no reason a isolated region far from Arabic world, with language very distinct from Arabic would make those linguistic changes. We can just see how the Turks and Indo-Iranians keep using the Iranian word -stan as ending on countries. There’s no reason for the Norse to drop -land, or Arabicize the name of people. Danelaw could change name thanks to theological changes in how the Norse would see war as a religious act of spreading the faith. Maybe it could be called the Land or Strife or War. Which could develop into Werreland (war land).

OOC:Why not both? Using both al prefix and land too..would be unique.

OOC: i was aiming for England uniting britain, but embracing celticness to distract from the shared ancestry between them and the muslim scandinavians

OOC: Pyrdain is mega welsh and England took a lot of saxons and vikings, so here would be more welsh to counter that, thus we got England Island and Eire/Ireland