DBWI: No Sino-Soviet War

[colonel]

What I want to know is what idiot fired the first missile? What did they possibly hope to gain? What did they THINK would happen?

You really don’t believe Mao’s declaration that the PRC first strike was done by a rogue commander without his knowledge? His commanders wouldn’t make any significant move without Mao’s specific order. The fact that he only made the disavowal after the massive Soviet response shows you it was Mao’s order, and he was counting on the Soviets not having the stomach to respond. If he hadn’t made the original order then Mao would not have made additional launches when the Soviet’s paused on the third day. MAD worked between the US and USSR, it did not work in this context because one of the leaders was actually MAD.

 

[Johnrankins]

You really don’t believe Mao’s declaration that the PRC first strike was done by a rogue commander without his knowledge? His commanders wouldn’t make any significant move without Mao’s specific order. The fact that he only made the disavowal after the massive Soviet response shows you it was Mao’s order, and he was counting on the Soviets not having the stomach to respond. If he hadn’t made the original order then Mao would not have made additional launches when the Soviet’s paused on the third day. MAD worked between the US and USSR, it did not work in this context because one of the leaders was actually MAD.

What are you saying? I am sure it was a complete coincidence that Mao was deep inside an underground bunker when the nukes were launched!

 

[Bbone91]

You really don’t believe Mao’s declaration that the PRC first strike was done by a rogue commander without his knowledge? His commanders wouldn’t make any significant move without Mao’s specific order. The fact that he only made the disavowal after the massive Soviet response shows you it was Mao’s order, and he was counting on the Soviets not having the stomach to respond. If he hadn’t made the original order then Mao would not have made additional launches when the Soviet’s paused on the third day. MAD worked between the US and USSR, it did not work in this context because one of the leaders was actually MAD.

Admittedly I mostly know about the Sino-Soviet War from my paternal grandfather. He was on one of the U.S. Submarines that were dispatched to Taiwan shortly after the war ‘ended’.

 

[Ascendant Warrior]

What are you saying? I am sure it was a complete coincidence that Mao was deep inside an underground bunker when the nukes were launched!

...and we all know how well that worked out for him after the dust settled.

Seriously, Mao got full-on Mussolini-ed. My Modern China College Class covers his last days, and it's NOT pretty.

Also, I must state that a major part of the reason the Communist Government collapsed like it did was not only the Nuclear Strikes and the loss of faith...but because the Party was still reeling from the 'Cultural Revolution'. Appearently there was supposedly a 'Ninth Party Congress' planned to stabilize the Country which had become increasingly volatile...From what I read, the only reason the Chinese Counter-Response to the Soviet's First Responce was as unified as it was is because the Chinese feared extermination, which Mao tried to leverage to keep himself and his surviving cronies in power.

Lets just say that despite the plethora of evidence that Mao ordered the First Strike, it's not impossible that someone that was either burned by the Party or TOO loyal to the Party had done it, with the madness and Revolutionary Fervor that Mao had stoked.

 

[Rfl23]

...and we all know how well that worked out for him after the dust settled.

Seriously, Mao got full-on Mussolini-ed. My Modern China College Class covers his last days, and it's NOT pretty.

Also, I must state that a major part of the reason the Communist Government collapsed like it did was not only the Nuclear Strikes and the loss of faith...but because the Party was still reeling from the 'Cultural Revolution'. Appearently there was supposedly a 'Ninth Party Congress' planned to stabilize the Country which had become increasingly volatile...From what I read, the only reason the Chinese Counter-Response to the Soviet's First Responce was as unified as it was is because the Chinese feared extermination, which Mao tried to leverage to keep himself and his surviving cronies in power.

Lets just say that despite the plethora of evidence that Mao ordered the First Strike, it's not impossible that someone that was either burned by the Party or TOO loyal to the Party had done it, with the madness and Revolutionary Fervor that Mao had stoked.

Oof yeah i remember the picture of him in the square getting changed with his corpse (hanging upside down too) after they captured him trying to escape the city

 

[colonel]

Taiwan missed an opportunity at the end of the war. Had they stepped in to offer relief to all who needed it you likely wouldn’t have had the splintering that developed and exists to this day. True they didn’t have the resources to help all of China recover, but by discriminating against large areas they built up hatred, and there is little doubt the US and the rest of the west would have sent aid.

 

[colonel]

Admittedly I mostly know about the Sino-Soviet War from my paternal grandfather. He was on one of the U.S. Submarines that were dispatched to Taiwan shortly after the war ‘ended’.

So your Grandpa was a boomer? Do you know what sub? Nixon was smart to send the subs - eight missile subs ON THE SURFACE (and who knows how many attack subs submerged) around Taiwan just to tell anyone left in the PRC not to use any remaining nukes to attack the island and try to divert attention from their own disaster.

 

[Bbone91]

So your Grandpa was a boomer? Do you know what sub? Nixon was smart to send the subs - eight missile subs ON THE SURFACE (and who knows how many attack subs submerged) around Taiwan just to tell anyone left in the PRC not to use any remaining nukes to attack the island and try to divert attention from their own disaster.

Think it was the Seawolf? SSN-575 was the number, I know for certain it wasn’t an actual boomer though. Sub hunter.

 

[Helaena I Targaryen]

Admittedly I mostly know about the Sino-Soviet War from my paternal grandfather. He was on one of the U.S. Submarines that were dispatched to Taiwan shortly after the war ‘ended’.

OOC: Is your grandfather actually a submariner?

 

[Bbone91]

OOC: Is your grandfather actually a submariner?

OOC: No, air force. Dad was the bubblehead. Seawolf was the sub he served on in the 1980s.

 

[colonel]

Think it was the Seawolf? SSN-575 was the number, I know for certain it wasn’t an actual boomer though. Sub hunter.

Cool. I think that was the first nuclear submarine after Nautilus and the first real attack sub.

 

[Rfl23]

Speaking of submarine does anyone know what happened to the chinese submarine fleet? The only thing i remember correctly is that they are stationed at hainan and one sub is sunk off the coast of south vietnam

 

[colonel]

They were all diesels. Officially they were scrapped, but there was a book written in 92 claiming the CIA got 2 of them and a old Soviet diesel and gave them to none other than Howard Hughes. Hughes supposedly sunk them intentionally and then used them to test the capabilities of a secret ship he developed to recover ships, subs and other materials from previously inaccessible areas. The book was called Glomar Explorer - Into the Depths. Almost sci fi, but the author’s documentation looks legitimate.

 

[Bbone91]

Speaking of submarine does anyone know what happened to the chinese submarine fleet? The only thing i remember correctly is that they are stationed at hainan and one sub is sunk off the coast of south vietnam

Grandpa told me about that one that sunk. While he never confirmed anything, he always hinted that the Seawolf had a hand in its sinking.

 

[Rfl23]

Grandpa told me about that one that sunk. While he never confirmed anything, he always hinted that the Seawolf had a hand in its sinking.

Huh i thought the us captured one (a large submarine too) off the coast of okinawa but i never thought they would aid the soviets in sinking some chinese sub wasnt the one they captured somehow became an official us submarine? (With a suspiciously oriental named crew)

 

[Bbone91]

Huh i thought the us captured one (a large submarine too) off the coast of okinawa but i never thought they would aid the soviets in sinking some chinese sub wasnt the one they captured somehow became an official us submarine? (With a suspiciously oriental named crew)

Dunno. To be honest I was never sure if grandad was being honest or just telling a tall tale.

 

[Rfl23]

Dunno. To be honest I was never sure if grandad was being honest or just telling a tall tale.

True i mean submariner back then do get better and more plentiful ration which include alcohol so there is that

 

[Lyr3866]

Oh yeah thats the uss peking if i remember correctly they "surrendered" to the us forces in okinawa due to alledgedly running out of fuel (a soviet destroyer do show up in the horizon a bit later but its only small trivial note) and well the cia does have activities on the far east so hey we may never knew what happen to the sub that sank off the coast of south vietnam

 

[TimTurner]

They were all diesels. Officially they were scrapped, but there was a book written in 92 claiming the CIA got 2 of them and a old Soviet diesel and gave them to none other than Howard Hughes. Hughes supposedly sunk them intentionally and then used them to test the capabilities of a secret ship he developed to recover ships, subs and other materials from previously inaccessible areas. The book was called Glomar Explorer - Into the Depths. Almost sci fi, but the author’s documentation looks legitimate.

Some conspiracy theorists for decades threw about even wilder-sounding theories. One claimed that they were secretly made part of the US navy and used by a cabal of Soviet spies embedded in our armed forces. Of course no evidence ever emerged that vindicated that theory's alleged validity...

 

[Rfl23]

Some conspiracy theorists for decades threw about even wilder-sounding theories. One claimed that they were secretly made part of the US navy and used by a cabal of Soviet spies embedded in our armed forces. Of course no evidence ever emerged that vindicated that theory's alleged validity...

Well pepsi does received a submarine from the ussr as payment for their shipment of soda but its a different model though people have sighted 2 submarine painted with the pepsi logo and colour